Help! Tiled wetroom floor looks perfect but grout doesn't dry out!

[Dave]

Well, all I know is that the tiler scraped out all the grout on the wet side of the screen and replaced it with epoxy, which still looks intact, then we put a large amount of clear Silicon where the metal frame of the screen meets the tiles. So I would say it was almost impossible for water to get under the screen from on top of the tiles. Strangely, the grout does not get wet on the 'dry' side until a couple of inches away from the screen!

It seems it could be creeping in the adhesive bed... How is the drain sealed at the tile edges ?

 

[Paula]

Is there a chance there's a leak somewhere? Maybe?

Hi Dan

Do you mean from a pipe or something?

 

[Paula]

It seems it could be creeping in the adhesive bed... How is the drain sealed at the tile edges ?

The tiler didn't leave much room between the tile and the metal drain edge, but the tiny gaps were originally sealed with ordinary Bal grout, and now Mapei epoxy (although I can't guarantee that he was able to scrape out every tiny bit of original grout....

 

[Paula]

I've just tried to take some photos of the wet patches of grout on the 'dry' side of the screen (12 hours after last shower!). Used a low quality image as I had trouble uploading photos before, but I can try higher resolution if you can't see anything!

 

[Dan]

That grout doesn't look to clever.

You sure it's not adhesive showing through?

 

[Qwerty]

Pics are a bit inconclusive but as @Dan says, it doesn't look too clever. You sure it's damp?

 

[Dan]

It possibly just needs regrouting and some care going into making sure it's mixed and she's off properly with not too much water.

 

[The D]

That's very interesting, deanotile! So where exactly was the water coming from in the shower? Do you mean from somewhere in the tray? And, more importantly, how did you fix it?

one was a leak from the shower control where the plumber had not compressed the olive enough and the water was soaking throgh the adhesive and coming out in the grout joints on the floor and the other was a badly sealed wall jet and the effect was much the same as the first one. the plumer fixed the leak and the problem was solved

 

[Paula]

View attachment 74095

That grout doesn't look to clever.

You sure it's not adhesive showing through?

No, I don't think that's adhesive: the dark patches are damp (the dark patch furthest away from the wall you can actually see beads of moisture) plus nearest the wall there is efflorescence, where (I assume) the water has evaporated from the grout and left a deposit. The grout was perfect until a few weeks into using the shower, but then we had problems in the shower tray with damp grout (now fixed by re-grouting with epoxy). Since then, the damp patches outside the shower have become worse.

 

[Paula]

Pics are a bit inconclusive but as @Dan says, it doesn't look too clever. You sure it's damp?

Yes, it's definitely damp: you can see beads of moisture on one patch after a shower, plus if you put a piece of tissue paper over and press you can see that the paper is damp. We had exactly the same problem in the shower tray (discussed at length earlier in this thread!) and when the dark patches were tested with a damp meter they were shown to be damp.

 

[Paula]

one was a leak from the shower control where the plumber had not compressed the olive enough and the water was soaking throgh the adhesive and coming out in the grout joints on the floor and the other was a badly sealed wall jet and the effect was much the same as the first one. the plumer fixed the leak and the problem was solved

I must admit I hadn't thought that water could be coming from the walls...but if it was wouldn't we be seeing damp patches on the wall grout, too? These have not been replaced with epoxy, but dry out very quickly

 

[Dan]

If it's 100% not a leak then the solution is the same no matter what the cause. Put it down as one of life's mysteries. But then grout with epoxy?

 

[Paula]

If it's 100% not a leak then the solution is the same no matter what the cause. Put it down as one of life's mysteries. But then grout with epoxy?

Well, we'll certainly check out the leak theory. But if we can't find one, then are you saying that it's ok to just keep covering with epoxy? I can't help thinking that we are only masking the problem, and that there shouldn't really be any water under the tiles at all. Long term, is it ok then to have water trapped under tiles?

 

[Qwerty]

Shut off water in that room, dry grout, then systematically work through each possible cause to work out the problem. Run shower, but only into a bucket, then the drain so you can rule out tray etc or see if it's seeping under tiles

 

[Dan]

^ he's switched on is our Geoff.

 

[Paula]

Shut off water in that room, dry grout, then systematically work through each possible cause to work out the problem. Run shower, but only into a bucket, then the drain so you can rule out tray etc or see if it's seeping under tiles

Yes, I can see that this is a sensible approach, but easier said than done! We have just come back from a two week holiday, and the damp patches were still there. Previously, when we had the same patches in the tiled shower tray (pre-epoxy) we let the tray dry out for two months and there were still wet patches! I am wondering now whether there is a leak even when the shower is not being used (perhaps from the valves?), but can't help thinking that we would notice damp patches on the grout on the walls if this was the case?

Anyway, would I be right in assuming that you wouldn't consider this sort of discolouration of the grout outside the wet area in a wet room as 'normal'? I know I am fussy (but I think that is justified considering how much money we've spent on this bathroom!), but was beginning to think that perhaps all wet rooms have these problems, and it's just not talked about?

 

[Dan]

I assume if it is a leak then, it's from a feed rather than waste.
Might be worth checking on our plumbing forum for some advice on that one?

Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice | Plumbers Forums | A forum for plumbers advice in the UK

 

[Paula]

Ok, just so I know that you all know what I'm talking about, I have taken some much higher quality photos (much better system now for uploading photos!) showing the extent of the discolouration on the dry side of the shower screen. As the screen is 2.2m high and the shower head is fixed at 2m on the wall, the area in question never gets wet from spray (the screen is 1.4m long, there is a small amount of darkening of the grout at the far end, away from the shower head, but not as bad as in the photos). The photos were taken 9 hours after the last shower, for reference.

Would welcome any comments!

 

[The D]

I must admit I hadn't thought that water could be coming from the walls...but if it was wouldn't we be seeing damp patches on the wall grout, too? These have not been replaced with epoxy, but dry out very quickly

I must admit on the one job there was signs on the wall but on the other there was no sign on the walls at all the water was just traveling through the adhesive and gathering at the lowest point. yours may not be the same problem but to be honest IMO grout will not let that amount of water pass through in a domestic shower without some serious cracks or pin holes. try cutting in to the grout on the dark patches and see if there is water trapped in that area.

 

[Paula]

I must admit on the one job there was signs on the wall but on the other there was no sign on the walls at all the water was just traveling through the adhesive and gathering at the lowest point. yours may not be the same problem but to be honest IMO grout will not let that amount of water pass through in a domestic shower without some serious cracks or pin holes. try cutting in to the grout on the dark patches and see if there is water trapped in that area.

This was the worst dark patch just after using the shower this morning: you can definitely see beads of moisture, plus the moisture on the tissue when I dabbed it. I am going to let it dry out and then run the shower hose directly down the drain and see if it returns. If not, we'll know if it is coming either from the shower valve or leaking from the waste, rather than somehow getting through the tiles. I'll let you know!

 

[Paula]

It seems it could be creeping in the adhesive bed... How is the drain sealed at the tile edges ?

This is how the drain is sealed: beginning to think now this may be where the water is creeping in? What do you think?

 

[Old Mod]

Can u take a hose pipe from shower head directly to the bath? That'll eliminate the shower head connector, the elbow behind the wall at the top of the pipe and the shower diverter all in one go or it will narrow it down to these three items hopefully.

 

[Paula]

Can u take a hose pipe from shower head directly to the bath? That'll eliminate the shower head connector, the elbow behind the wall at the top of the pipe and the shower diverter all in one go or it will narrow it down to these three items hopefully.

Thanks for that. We have two shower heads (one fixed, one on a hose), with the diverter /valve away away from both. The bath is quite a distance away, so this is a bit tricky! But I see what you mean

 

[Old Mod]

Well if my thinking is right (anyone else feel free to object😀)
This should break it down to either a water feed issue or a drainage one. If u are able, maybe unscrew static shower head and fix a garden hose to it. I know it's faffing about but I'm hoping it'll break it down into two halves.

 

[Paula]

Well if my thinking is right (anyone else feel free to object😀)
This should break it down to either a water feed issue or a drainage one. If u are able, maybe unscrew static shower head and fix a garden hose to it. I know it's faffing about but I'm hoping it'll break it down into two halves.

Yes, sounds sensible. But if it's not the water feed, then we'd have to work out whether the water is getting in through the tiles in the tray (perhaps around the drain?) or escaping somehow from inside the drain itself.Do you think this is possible?

 

[Dan]

It's possible I think yeah.

It's starting to get quite hard for us to troubleshoot because we're just winging it a bit here.

Do you think it's worth getting a plumber in to actually take a look. They see this all the time I'm sure. Or even a tiler, but I can't see how, until we've found out what's going on, a tiler can actually trace the leak if he's not a plumber.

By all means keep contributing to the thread and maybe we will pull this off for you. 😀

But consider getting a plumber round! I'm sure this must be doing your tree in!

 

[Old Mod]

Well anything is possible, this is just a slight variation on what Geoff suggested, now I've read it 😀 sorry Geoff
But if u can take the water away from the shower and it reappears hopefully that should point to it being a problem on the feed side.

If not, it's either getting thro tiles during use, or the drain could be failing.

I'd leave it running a fair while in case it has to build up somewhere first.

 

[Dan]

I've summarised this and hope I've got it right! haha

But please check this thread out at our plumbing forum.

Problematic thread on TilersForums might be a leak in shower - can you help us? - Plumbing Forum

 

[Kris Farquhar]

Hey guys , this is my first post here , I'm not a tiler but Infact a plumber, Dan kindly popped this post over onto the plumber forum for us to have a look through,
When I first startling reading the thread I thought it might've been a bad bit of grout not in being laid bad but a slight imperfection in the batch , ( small part )
If it was the drain or the shower because the floor is probably well sealed then I'd've thought the shadows would've spread with usage, I have seen water travel great lengths through tiles b4 protruding up through the cracks but don't think it in this case ,
There must be couple badly sealed parts now that your seeing evidence from your screen side,

 

[Kris Farquhar]

Sorry, Paula do u have any pics of the screen leak and the shower set up many thanks ,, kris

 

[Kris Farquhar]

I take it you think that now that it's sealed near the drain that the next available exit point is near the screen ??