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Bathroom floor grout cracking

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bluevin123

Hi,
Tiled a bathroom floor a couple of weeks ago for a customer. Plyed it out first with 12mm ply,primed it,used flexi addy and flexi grout and screwed down every 12 inches.
Few days later went back because the grout was cracking in places.
we went back and put more in,but last Friday he rang and said its cracking again.
So we going round tomorrow...Gonna get the old grout out and add GT1 to the grout mix to make it more flexilble and pour it in the gaps, apparently if we make it quite wet,it will go under the tile to fill any voids as well,if any..been advised by a skilled tiler to screw down every 4-6 inches for future jobs ,NOT 12.
Just hope this sorts it out,would hate to go back and rip it up,oh yeah they are porclain as well.
Does what I intend to do sound ok with you guys?
Cheers.
Vinnie.
:uhoh2::uhoh2:
 
What grout exactly did you use the first time? How wide are the grout joints?

You cannot modify an already Modified grout it will go like chewing gum. If you ring BAL or Mapei both their tech helplines will confirm this so you will have to slightly over modify one of their unmodified grouts:thumbsup:

Kev
 
Sorry guys I did use a flexi grout,as stated in my first post.
Been around there today and there was only about six inches to regrout.
When the bloke rang he made out it was all cracking,and us thinking it might have to be ripped up.
Well anyway fingers crossed it stays ok.
Cheers for your help .
Vin.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
You need to fix the ply every 300mm centres. If the joists are 400mm spans, you need to add noggins. The ply should be 15mm min.

There in may lay the problem:stupid:

Hello? Anyone else at home :yes::yes::yes:? Why we discussing grout?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Danny,

I agree with you completely! It's been done wrong but he may get away with regrouting it???

Kev
But the correct reply would be to tell him everywhere he has gone wrong.
If he went ahead and regrouted with a W/J grout and AD1, and that cracked. He then Came back on here for more advice, and you then tell him his ply was not thick enough. Would refund him his money for the extra grout and labour?
 
But the correct reply would be to tell him everywhere he has gone wrong.
If he went ahead and regrouted with a W/J grout and AD1, and that cracked. He then Came back on here for more advice, and you then tell him his ply was not thick enough. Would refund him his money for the extra grout and labour?

Danny,

His initial query was he intended to modify an already modified grout. I pointed out he couldn't. Ultimately it was only 6" of grout cracking. If I told him everything that was wrong he would have to rip up the whole thing. People come on here because they are looking for answers to solve their problems. If I went your route virtually every job would have to be redone. You have already said in other posts you are seeing this daily. How many rip it up and do it again???

Kev
 
Danny,

His initial query was he intended to modify an already modified grout. I pointed out he couldn't. Ultimately it was only 6" of grout cracking. If I told him everything that was wrong he would have to rip up the whole thing. People come on here because they are looking for answers to solve their problems. If I went your route virtually every job would have to be redone. You have already said in other posts you are seeing this daily. How many rip it up and do it again???

Kev

In this instance, if I was called out to this job, that is what would need to be done, and that is the advice, as a BAL employee I'd have to give.
So that's the advice I gave the guy.
As a professional giving advice to people that are looking for it, then that too is the advice you have to give. If the floor needs to be ripped up, then that is what has to happen.
I didn't even mention the fact he has voids under his floor, which should be solid bed fixed.
If some one asks for advice on putting a job right, I give it. As I said, if this guy had spent a few quid regrouting, and he came back here next week saying his floor grout had cracked again, what would you say to him?
 
as the song says Branty....'rip it up and start again'

IMO - you both have valid points but i think vinnie was looking for the quick fix in the meantime.:grin:
 
as the song says Branty....'rip it up and start again'

IMO - you both have valid points but i think vinnie was looking for the quick fix in the meantime.:grin:
I agree Brian.
But when you do that, its important to point out what probably is the underlying problem. That way you're giving the overal picture, and let the person decide what he wants with all the facts. I was just trying to cover all the bases on this post. Not just repeat what other people have already said.
 
yes m8 i understand exactly what you are saying and thanks again for explaining in full as im sure some of the new guys will take heid of the advice given.:grin:
 
Cheers danny..good advice as usual.....like you say better to do it right than do it again and again...:thumbsup:
Cheers Dave.
I live in the real world and know sometimes what you have to do and what you can afford to do are not always compatible.
Since working for BAL I've realised you need to give the full facts or it might bite you on the bum.
 
In my humble opinion the advice given to tilers today should be do not tile directly on to plywood sub-straights. There are more than enough products out there that can do the job. You are risking a failure if you tile on to wood in the best of circumstances. Even if you have used 18mm ply and screwed at 6 inch centres and primed the under side and the edges of the wood and screwed the tong and groove floorboards to ensure there rigidity. You can even go as far as to ensure the joists are free from movement. You can do all this and still get a failure. Wood is unpredictable.
 
In my humble opinion the advice given to tilers today should be do not tile directly on to plywood sub-straights. There are more than enough products out there that can do the job. You are risking a failure if you tile on to wood in the best of circumstances. Even if you have used 18mm ply and screwed at 6 inch centres and primed the under side and the edges of the wood and screwed the tong and groove floorboards to ensure there rigidity. You can even go as far as to ensure the joists are free from movement. You can do all this and still get a failure. Wood is unpredictable.
Yes see your point,but is this not changing what every tiler has been taught over the years?
 
TECHNICAL BACKGROUND ARTICLE FROM ARDEX UK
Date: 18 February 2005 •

Sub-floor preparation for ceramic floor tiling
Cyril Potter, Chief Chemist at Ardex UK looks in detail at sub-floor preparation for ceramic floor tiling.
Any preparation work carried out on sub-floors is intended to provide a surface that is clean, dimensionally stable, rigid and sufficiently flat so that the ceramic floor tile can be well adhered and provide a hard wearing and durable floor finish.

SUSPENDED TIMBER SUB- FLOORS.
Where wood based sub-floors are to be tiled the tile fixer has to ensure that the sub-floor is rigid and at the correct moisture content.
The first requirement can give problems if the sub-floor has to be strengthened to achieve a rigid base for the ceramic floor tiles.
Fixing new plywood to stiffen the existing sub-floor will raise the floor level and this can cause problems where the new tiled floor abuts existing floors.
The recommendations given in the BS Code of Practice are to ensure that the plywood sheets and boards are conditioned to the correct moisture content and then the backs and edges should be sealed with a suitable sealer to prevent the ingress of atmospheric moisture.
Note that an adhesive specifically recommended for use on wood based sub-floors should always be used and any priming recommended for use with the adhesive should be applied to the upper unsealed plywood surface.
The main cause of problems on wood based sub-floors is the difficulty in conditioning any new wood based sheets or boards to the moisture content they will have once the floor is in use.
The problem applies to new build construction and refurbishment work where the new sheets and boards may be stored under conditions of high humidity so that the boards take up moisture vapour and expand.
If the tiles are fixed whilst the boards have too high a moisture content cracking of the tiles can occur.
Guidance on the suggested moisture contents of wooden sub-floors and boards to receive ceramic tiling under different heating conditions are given in The Tile Association guide 'Tiling to Timber Sheets and Board, Timber Substrates and Alternative Products'.
The lowest moisture content of the boards is necessary where under tile heating is used on a wooden sub-floor.
Wood based boards with piped integral heating should always be brought up to operating temperature to ensure that they are of appropriate dryness when the ceramic floor tiles are subsequently fixed.
When fixing plywood sheets and boards over existing floorboards it is also good practice to check that the old floorboards are well screwed down and rigid.
It is always advisable to pre-smooth the existing floorboards with a suitable latex smoothing compound to ensure that the new plywood sheets fit flush so that no voids are present where localised movement under loads can occur.
When fixing plywood sheets try to use one large sheet if possible or take steps to minimise the number of board joints.
If 2 boards are necessary then try to set out the tiling so that the tile joints coincide with the joint between the boards.
If movement occurs at the plywood board joint, from subsequent drying of the plywood, replacing the grout along one joint is easier than replacing a cracked tile.
The plywood boards should be laid broken bonded and running in the opposite direction to the joints between the existing floorboards.
Where large areas of tiling are required on existing wooden sub-floors it is better to utilise some of the proprietary intermediate substrate materials specifically designed for use on wood based sub-floors.:thumbsup:
 

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Bathroom floor grout cracking
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