BAL Advice needed - tiler almost doubled verbal quote on invoice, never quoted in writing

[James C]

hi all,

I’ve had some stellar advice from these forums in getting some split face stone tiles installed on my walls safely and correctly, and based on the advice I insisted they were installed on marmox boards rather than the existing plasterboard.

I supplied the boards, the washers, the screws etc.

the original quote verbally delivered as “I can do the job for £420”.

His invoice almost doubled the quote and added VAT (never mentioned the verbal quote needed VAT added!) and at no point confirmed he wanted to invoice more before the invoice arrived.

Where do I stand on this? As he did not quote in writing at any point, do I have to pay this extortionate cost?

FYI he completed the job in 8 hours total work and only needed to supply adhesive.

 

[Boggs]

So around £1000 for a days work?

 

[James C]

Without having it in front of me, it was close to £800! It was 4 hours on a Saturday and 4 hours on a Sunday...

My point was more of a quote is verbal and agreed verbally, surely you can’t just add on another £300 and invoice?

 

[Andy Allen]

Is he VAT registered .??
I would be wanting to see a vat number and would check its real..

As you have nothing in writing it's just he said, you said...

 

[Boggs]

Always get your quote in writing and definitely check he is vat registered.

 

[Waluigi]

I’d question it.

For me, I don’t really charge for part days, if it’s 4 hours one day and 4 hours another then that’s 2 days.

Even still, that’s quite a healthy day rate he has there. Can you estimate how much he spent on materials?

Definitely ask for a breakdown. How can he ask for more money once he’s already quoted I don’t know. A verbal quote is still a contract.

 

[James C]

He is threatening “litigation” if I don’t pay him. I’m more than happy to pay the quoted amount. If he doesn’t have a legal standpoint to “send it to litigation” then I will stand firm and continue extending my offer to pay him what he quoted.

He also stated in his last email that the quote was “for cash”, doesn’t sound like the VAT man is getting any of that!

 

[James C]

I’d question it.

For me, I don’t really charge for part days, if it’s 4 hours one day and 4 hours another then that’s 2 days.

Even still, that’s quite a healthy day rate he has there. Can you estimate how much he spent on materials?

Definitely ask for a breakdown. How can he ask for more money once he’s already quoted I don’t know. A verbal quote is still a contract.

Everything was in place to be done in one day, it certainly wasn’t our choice for him to come back on the Sunday, would have been far easier to get it all done on the Saturday!

The only material was adhesive for 5sq metres of boards and tiles

 

[Waluigi]

Minimal then.

Yes I’d definitely question it. I’d just tell him that he quoted x amount on the phone. No mention of VAT.

You have to tell people it’s plus VAT otherwise it’s misleading

 

[James C]

Minimal then.

Yes I’d definitely question it. I’d just tell him that he quoted x amount on the phone. No mention of VAT.

You have to tell people it’s plus VAT otherwise it’s misleading

It’s just unpleasant to have to be this way. I do a job where we quote for complicated trades on technical projects, and we quote for everything in an email and get agreement before we book anything in. We always state on the quote that additional labour will be x per hour and materials are an estimation within 10% etc.

I guess I have to wait for a solicitors letter now!

 

[Just Rizzle]

pay him what he quoted saying in full and final payment and threaten him with informing hmrc i bet they be happy to investigate cash deals and vat

 

[Spare Tool]

Have you actually asked him why his invoice is double the original estimate?

 

[James C]

Have you actually asked him why his invoice is double the original estimate?

Yeah, because I insisted the weight of the tiles needed overboarding, painted plasterboard can’t take 38kg per sq metre + adhesive. There’s a whole thread on that as well!

 

[James C]

pay him what he quoted saying in full and final payment and threaten him with informing hmrc i bet they be happy to investigate cash deals and vat

This may be the only route I have left to take, I don’t want to be that guy but clearly he is doing cash work on the weekends that never makes it to HMRC, and I had no problem paying the original quote regardless of whether it was on the books or not

 

[Waluigi]

Oh hang on, the guy did extra work which falls outside of what he originally quoted? Different ballgame now.

That’s extra. You can’t second guess what he is making on the job, only whether you think the additional work is reasonable

 

[Spare Tool]

So just to get it straight...he originally quoted for just sticking tiles on, then you asked him to overboard the walls as well?

 

[James C]

So just to get it straight...he originally quoted for just sticking tiles on, then you asked him to overboard the walls as well?

No we originally told him we wanted the boards on the wall too. He then quoted for the job to be completed, and then spent the week trying to convince us we did not need the boards

 

[Spare Tool]

No we originally told him we wanted the boards on the wall too. He then quoted for the job to be completed, and then spent the week trying to convince us we did not need the boards

But regardless, did his original quote include boarding the wall?

 

[James C]

But regardless, did his original quote include boarding the wall?

As I said, we told him what we wanted (over boarding), he then verbally quoted. The absence of a written quote is the issue here as we were clear what we wanted. He tried talking us out of the boards as a “waste of money” but we insisted, and spent the money buying boards and fixings

 

[Spare Tool]

Not trying to get your back up James, I am working on a large job at the moment (over 200sqm) and there's nothing in writing at all. I visited site and quoted £# so much a metre there and then and they accepted..
There's no laws against a verbal quote that I know of, its a trust thing and am no expert on the law but think once work has commenced then your in a contract..you should have confirmed the price before he started and tbf he should have said the price would be going up for whatever reasons.. Judge Rinder would have a field day with this one

 

[James C]

Not trying to get your back up James, I am working on a large job at the moment (over 200sqm) and there's nothing in writing at all. I visited site and quoted £# so much a metre there and then and they accepted..
There's no laws against a verbal quote that I know of, its a trust thing and am no expert on the law but think once work has commenced then your in a contract..you should have confirmed the price before he started and tbf he should have said the price would be going up for whatever reasons.. Judge Rinder would have a field day with this one

I have no problem with everyone’s opinions on this, but I’m sure if you needed to add a hefty chunk onto the verbal quote before work commenced, you would make sure you communicated this?

If he had confirmed the quote as he was going to invoice we would not have had the work done by him!

 

[One Day]

When you read up on the legality of verbal contracts, you are the party who has had 'consideration'. Unless you are confident that you can prove your verbal contract, it appears he has the upper hand here, if only slightly.

Lesson: always ALWAYS get it in writing. Even if it's only a text or email.

 

[One Day]

Offer him the original agreed payment and tell him it's whilst you get legal advice and talk to hmrc.
He'll probably go away then.

 

[Waluigi]

I think it shows the importance of a written quote, even if it’s a few lines in an email or even a text message.

That said, it’s unethical what he did IMO and is charging you well over the odds. That’s greed.

We can all be greedy but I like my greed to be listed out in a proper written Quotation, with Bullet points 😀

 

[James C]

When you read up on the legality of verbal contracts, you are the party who has had 'consideration'. Unless you are confident that you can prove your verbal contract, it appears he has the upper hand here, if only slightly.

Lesson: always ALWAYS get it in writing. Even if it's only a text or email.

We have had a lengthy email conversation since he invoiced where we discuss the quote being £420 and he did not communicate anything to the contrary, so i have that to prove the situation I guess

 

[One Day]

I think we're allowed ''scope creep" but only about 20% and then it should be fresh or revised contracts.

 

[James C]

I think it shows the importance of a written quote, even if it’s a few lines in an email or even a text message.

That said, it’s unethical what he did IMO and is charging you well over the odds. That’s greed.

We can all be greedy but I like my greed to be listed out in a proper written Quotation, with Bullet points 😀

For work we quote far higher day rates on our trades, but we QUOTE! Our clients can decline our quotes and go elsewhere.

Had this tiler quoted as he intended to invoice, I would have not accepted and we would have found another!

 

[One Day]

We have had a lengthy email conversation since he invoiced where we discuss the quote being £420 and he did not communicate anything to the contrary, so i have that to prove the situation I guess

This is your silver bullet. Pay him the agreed rate and forget him. If he threatens anything legal, you've got him.

 

[Boggs]

When did your backer boards turn up on the Saturday?
Was the tiler waiting for them and is that why he came back on the Sunday?

 

[John Benton]

The spoken word flies but the written word remains.

Let it be a lesson to get EVERYTHING in writing.

Remember that quote and you won't go far wrong.

 

[hmtiling]

I should have changed my ferry