Help.... The dreaded 6mm ply

[mbcmultitrade]

I have just tiled a bathroom floor which comprised of 6mm ply, over t&g chipboard flooring, - which then had an UFH coil taped to the ply. I reluctantly tiled onto the ply and consequently the adhesive has failed. The griut has cracked and there is movement on the corners of the tiles (60x30)
I was sure there was no real deflection in the original floor, and I assumed tiling onto the 6mm ply would be sufficient, despite hearing the odd horror story re the dreaded 6 mm ply.

Yes - I was wrong.

Can someone explain to me why you should not tile onto 6mm ply and how/why it fails the tiles/adhesive.

Also. Moving forward, Can I now remove the tiles and use a flexible SLC on top and then re-tile, or do I have to rip up the ply & UFH and start again with Hardi backer?

Your advice and 'told you so's' greatly appreciated.

P.s
I used Nicobond Quick flex ady and primed the ply twice with Nicobond acrylic primer.

 

[DHTiling]

Not a tiler then. Typical multitrade doing something he knows nowt about. Then comes and asks why . Ye ha ride em cowboy.

Angers me when peeps tile and oh it has failed. 🙁 🙁

 

[demi34]

You tile on top sugar paper

 

[Concrete guy]

Fundamentally, there was too much movement (flexing) in the substrate as it hadn't been reinforced sufficiently.

That really is the top and bottom of it.

A thicker ply or suitable backer board screwed down would have reduced movement, cracking, flexing.

There are some that would also incorporate an uncoupling membrane such as Ditra Matting on top of the reinforcement. On a small bathroom floor I feel that's overkill - but some tilers will require it.

 

[The D]

I would rip it all up and employ a tiler to do it right. That is the best advice I can give you

 

[Brian the Tile]

im sorry but you might as well have put cardboard down,you are right you will have to take the flack now ,why not stick to what you know ,whatever that may be hopefully you will now have learnt a lesson ,that is we are called TILERS because that is what we do ,maybe lesson learned hopefully, rant over :mad2:

 

[cam_low]

Multitrade = jack of all master of none aka cowboy

good on ya taking the hit though, least you haven't ran a mile like most cowboys do

 

[bugs183]

It could have been worse MB, you could have said you used PVA, tubbed tile on to wood adhesive, lash clips and you turned the heating on to dry out the adhesive! Well done for putting hands up though!
Yea matey as the guys say it needs all ripping up, no amount of flexible adhesive will absorb any deflection in the timber.

 

[Brian the Tile]

and a big :hurray: for being brave enough to accept that you made a mess of it,if you need advice,go ahead and ask first we dont bite ,honest

 

[widler]

and a big :hurray: for being brave enough to accept that you made a mess of it,if you need advice,go ahead and ask first we dont bite ,honest

🙂 🙂 he has asked for advice,and everyone bit bri 😉

 

[Mr T]

shouldnt you use flexi adhesive on any wooden substrate?

 

[mattle40]

And bit hard lol

 

[mattle40]

shouldnt you use flexi adhesive on any wooden substrate?

I suppose the term "flexible" is a bit misleading, yes you always use flexi on a timber substrate but don't take the term so literal. you can't tile a bouncy castle with it

 

[Mr T]

tbh it dries rock hard so i guess the term 'flexible' should be... a tiny bit more flexible than the norm lol

 

[DHTiling]

tbh it dries rock hard so i guess the term 'flexible' should be... a tiny bit more flexible than the norm lol

Are we talking C2 or S1 or even S2 adhesives..? ... what about a good old Elastomeric crumb adhesive..

 

[White Room]

Should'nt be using Quick flex on timber unless you add Nicobond enhancer 2002 http://www.ncdirect.co.uk/pdf/quickflex.pdf

 

[The D]

I offered you good advice

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Moving forward, Can I now remove the tiles and use a flexible SLC on top and then re-tile, or do I have to rip up the ply & UFH and start again with Hardi backer?

So you're still tempted to keep the ply though, hoping that it'll be better 2nd time round? I think we should pass this one onto a good local Tiler to sort out. And if he's good, stick with him & use him for any future tiling projects

 

[pipeline]

shouldnt you use flexi adhesive on any wooden substrate?

i thought u had to use flexi cement based adhesive on wooden flooring.. other wise it would come unstuck?

 

[White Room]

Quick flex on it's own is'nt suitible for timber only if you add a additive....the word flex is confusing.

 

[White Room]

So you're still tempted to keep the ply though, hoping that it'll be better 2nd time round? I think we should pass this one onto a good local Tiler to sort out. And if he's good, stick with him & use him for any future tiling projects

That reads better....

 

[mbcmultitrade]

Thanks for all of your angry comments and advice. I hold my hands up, i know I've cocked it up, - I just want to do the right thing in getting it right. I have been tiling a few years now, and never tiled onto 6mm ply before until this occasion. I did it this time round though, as I took advice the builder on site who had said they had been doing it for years and had never had a problem.

Thanks to ATSdiamondtools for the only piece of helpful advice in this thread 🙂

 

[AliGage]

I think my van has a bit of a problem. Might get the paperboy to fix it for me.

Had you asked the questions before you cocked up someone's home im sure you would have got plenty of useful advice from the professional tilers that are members of this forum.

 

[Qwerty]

Not good. Everything I could have said has already been said........ Apart from....... Any photos?

 

[Marksmithtiling]

Thanks for all of your angry comments and advice. I hold my hands up, i know I've cocked it up, - I just want to do the right thing in getting it right. I have been tiling a few years now, and never tiled onto 6mm ply before until this occasion. I did it this time round though, as I took advice the builder on site who had said they had been doing it for years and had never had a problem.

Thanks to ATSdiamondtools for the only piece of helpful advice in this thread 🙂

AAHH that old chestnut,took the advice of the BUILDER, been doing it for years not a problem !!!!!!!!:mad2:

 

[Perry]

MBC the only answer is to take it up and start again, would be better for you to hold your hands up as you say. A pro would be cheaper in the long run IMO, and for future jobs which need more knowledge.

 

[Perfect Tiling]

Please, please, please...don't say "the adhesive has failed". Its not the adhesive that failed...it was the person doing the tiling. If you want to tile onto 6mm then use hardibacker.

 

[IHB]

Could the under floor heating have been turned on a bit early?

 

[ian158]

Thanks for all of your angry comments and advice. I hold my hands up, i know I've cocked it up, - I just want to do the right thing in getting it right. I have been tiling a few years now, and never tiled onto 6mm ply before until this occasion. I did it this time round though, as I took advice the builder on site who had said they had been doing it for years and had never had a problem.

Thanks to ATSdiamondtools for the only piece of helpful advice in this thread 🙂

But you been a member since 2012...in all that time you must of seen a thread on lines of, don't use ply, use cement board....and you took the builders advice !..having said all that i took a tiled floor up that had been laid on 6mm ply which had been tacked with brass tacks to t/g floor boards...it was one of the hardest floors i have ever taken up..the tiles would not seperate from the ply...had to get a shovel and lift the ply up with tiles attached..been down more that 20 years and would have been fine for another 20 !..

 

[Concrete guy]

Ok , I think it's safe to say the guy has held his hands up and has taken three pages of flack for it.

Give him the specs on how it should be done correctly so he can rectify this job (if the customer wants) and won't make the same mistakes in the future.

Any potential new members or guests reading this thread will probably not fancy joining on the grounds it's a really hostile place here.

 

[mattle40]

Fair play ATS