Got to agree with you there fully Martino,a very good point made,to many people on here think its wrong to use ply,and a lot of people have only been on courses where they have been told not to use it,in my eyes experience speaks for itself,not a lot will pay a small fortune for something that is not needed in my neck of the woods neither
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Then you were lucky........ 6mm much too thin.
Y
ythan
If the tiles are firmly stuck down and none have cracked, then why not just carefully re-grout.
The size of the floor looks too small to have a major problem with shrinkage of the ply etc
Cement boards don't add any flexural strength to the floor, in fact less so than 6mm ply. Thicker ply (15mm+) is normally used where the existing floor is too flexible between joists or over floor boards. (Assume that your floor was pretty solid?).
Cement boards on a flexible floor will result in tiles cracking.
The size of the floor looks too small to have a major problem with shrinkage of the ply etc
Cement boards don't add any flexural strength to the floor, in fact less so than 6mm ply. Thicker ply (15mm+) is normally used where the existing floor is too flexible between joists or over floor boards. (Assume that your floor was pretty solid?).
Cement boards on a flexible floor will result in tiles cracking.
I only use 6mm cement boards on bathroom floors now , the cost is not much more than ply but the advantages are 10 fold , easy to transport, cut , fix and its waterproof as well , when fitted correctly to a properly prepared substrate , the cement boards are SOLID when compared to ply.. i still have to fix to 12mm ply when subbing to certain Bathroom fitters who prep the jobs and all seems good but i much prefer cement boards..
Y
ythan
Jace158's original query was about grout cracking and many said 6mm ply overlay is the problem - and that jace158 has to start again using cement boards- some even said need to remove the ply overlay first.
That's all a massive messy job for both jace158 and his customer. I'm doubtful that is necessary and hence suggested to first try careful re-grouting. There's no mention of cracking of the tiles, so jace158's problem sounds minor. Tiling onto ply and onto chipboard floors can be successful.
I agree in bathrooms, particularly when using electric underfloor heating, then thermal backer boards (eg Warmup Insulation boards) are well worth laying. But I maintain that 6mm cement backer boards won't be a cure for flexible ply or chipboard floors -cement boards don't add much flexural strength to the existing floor, compared with a ply overlay (which only needs to be thoroughly clout nailed).
That's all a massive messy job for both jace158 and his customer. I'm doubtful that is necessary and hence suggested to first try careful re-grouting. There's no mention of cracking of the tiles, so jace158's problem sounds minor. Tiling onto ply and onto chipboard floors can be successful.
I agree in bathrooms, particularly when using electric underfloor heating, then thermal backer boards (eg Warmup Insulation boards) are well worth laying. But I maintain that 6mm cement backer boards won't be a cure for flexible ply or chipboard floors -cement boards don't add much flexural strength to the existing floor, compared with a ply overlay (which only needs to be thoroughly clout nailed).
D
dave l and l
whether you carefully re grout or not you wont be fixing the problem as all you are doing is covering up. there is a problem that needs to be remedied. my belief is the 6mm substrate is not thick enough to deal with foot traffic so i believe you would have to lift and fix properly,
I'm a firm believer in cement boards don't get me wrong I never use anything else after a similar disaster with 12mm ply, in my case the grout was fine but the tiles cracked in a perfect line over where two boards met. In that case there wern't enough screws and the edges were lifting.
Re the 6mm thickess, Hardiebacker are 6mm but they are bedded onto flexi adhesive to fill voids and stop them bouncing over hollows in old floorboards.
So my question is, if the subfloor was 100% flat then surely 6mm ply screwed and 150mm would be okay as there's nothing to 'compress'?
Re the 6mm thickess, Hardiebacker are 6mm but they are bedded onto flexi adhesive to fill voids and stop them bouncing over hollows in old floorboards.
So my question is, if the subfloor was 100% flat then surely 6mm ply screwed and 150mm would be okay as there's nothing to 'compress'?
W
White Room
You can't be serious ????
Y
ythan
You can't be serious??? Yes.
Yes, sure you can't use clout nails on cement backer boards - the boards aren't strong enough....... BUT on ply, clout nails are so low cost and quick & easy to bang in that you can be over generous and use plenty to ensure very secure fixing.
Budgets and jobs are tight and getting tighter >> so need to do a good job at the lowest cost......a reputation for gold plating a job is no good.
Anyway my suggestion to the original grout cracking problem was to try fully re-grouting the tiles, and not to panic, and rip it all out.
Yes, sure you can't use clout nails on cement backer boards - the boards aren't strong enough....... BUT on ply, clout nails are so low cost and quick & easy to bang in that you can be over generous and use plenty to ensure very secure fixing.
Budgets and jobs are tight and getting tighter >> so need to do a good job at the lowest cost......a reputation for gold plating a job is no good.
Anyway my suggestion to the original grout cracking problem was to try fully re-grouting the tiles, and not to panic, and rip it all out.
budget to tight to buy a box of screws...:lol:
D
dave l and l
what you need to remember is the the grout is cracking out for a reason and is probably down to the floor flexing a bit. now if you just re grout without fixing the problem it will probably happen again, hence fixing the problem the now makes more sense than just re grouting.
6 mm ply wood is not really viable to tile onto. and to nail it down probably is not the best idea either. even if you cant price for certain materials because of there price you can still budget for heavier grade ply and a box of screws. nailing down is a diy job or someone who is too lazy to screw
6 mm ply wood is not really viable to tile onto. and to nail it down probably is not the best idea either. even if you cant price for certain materials because of there price you can still budget for heavier grade ply and a box of screws. nailing down is a diy job or someone who is too lazy to screw
I could probably drive screws faster than hammer nails and 10x better fixing.
Dream on, you wouldn't put a band-aid on a broken leg. It won't do the job it is meant to do.
Reputation is something that has to be built over a period of time with quality work. No wonder skilled men are out of work when they are pricing against someone who is cutting corners and quality of materials. I bet these guys who do that never get called back for repeat work in customers houses and don't get recommended!
E
easzeetiler
Another cause of grout cracking is if the mix was too dry going into the grout line.
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