grout cracking

[Andrew Case]

I think it's nice and encouraging to see someone putting a job right rather than running or leaving it as is! I don't know if this is your house or a customers but either way it would have been easier to leave it, but youve asked the questions and are putting it right. Good for you.

 

[Brian the Tile]

Got to agree with you there fully Martino,a very good point made,to many people on here think its wrong to use ply,and a lot of people have only been on courses where they have been told not to use it,in my eyes experience speaks for itself,not a lot will pay a small fortune for something that is not needed in my neck of the woods neither

 

[Ajax123]

i have seen this used before and it was fine!!

Then you were lucky........ 6mm much too thin.

 

[ythan]

If the tiles are firmly stuck down and none have cracked, then why not just carefully re-grout.

The size of the floor looks too small to have a major problem with shrinkage of the ply etc

Cement boards don't add any flexural strength to the floor, in fact less so than 6mm ply. Thicker ply (15mm+) is normally used where the existing floor is too flexible between joists or over floor boards. (Assume that your floor was pretty solid?).
Cement boards on a flexible floor will result in tiles cracking.

 

[andy-p]

I only use 6mm cement boards on bathroom floors now , the cost is not much more than ply but the advantages are 10 fold , easy to transport, cut , fix and its waterproof as well , when fitted correctly to a properly prepared substrate , the cement boards are SOLID when compared to ply.. i still have to fix to 12mm ply when subbing to certain Bathroom fitters who prep the jobs and all seems good but i much prefer cement boards..

 

[ythan]

Jace158's original query was about grout cracking and many said 6mm ply overlay is the problem - and that jace158 has to start again using cement boards- some even said need to remove the ply overlay first.

That's all a massive messy job for both jace158 and his customer. I'm doubtful that is necessary and hence suggested to first try careful re-grouting. There's no mention of cracking of the tiles, so jace158's problem sounds minor. Tiling onto ply and onto chipboard floors can be successful.


I agree in bathrooms, particularly when using electric underfloor heating, then thermal backer boards (eg Warmup Insulation boards) are well worth laying. But I maintain that 6mm cement backer boards won't be a cure for flexible ply or chipboard floors -cement boards don't add much flexural strength to the existing floor, compared with a ply overlay (which only needs to be thoroughly clout nailed).

 

[dave l and l]

whether you carefully re grout or not you wont be fixing the problem as all you are doing is covering up. there is a problem that needs to be remedied. my belief is the 6mm substrate is not thick enough to deal with foot traffic so i believe you would have to lift and fix properly,

 

[Bathfix Bob]

I'm a firm believer in cement boards don't get me wrong I never use anything else after a similar disaster with 12mm ply, in my case the grout was fine but the tiles cracked in a perfect line over where two boards met. In that case there wern't enough screws and the edges were lifting.

Re the 6mm thickess, Hardiebacker are 6mm but they are bedded onto flexi adhesive to fill voids and stop them bouncing over hollows in old floorboards.

So my question is, if the subfloor was 100% flat then surely 6mm ply screwed and 150mm would be okay as there's nothing to 'compress'?

 

[White Room]

Jace158's original query was about grout cracking and many said 6mm ply overlay is the problem - and that jace158 has to start again using cement boards- some even said need to remove the ply overlay first.

That's all a massive messy job for both jace158 and his customer. I'm doubtful that is necessary and hence suggested to first try careful re-grouting. There's no mention of cracking of the tiles, so jace158's problem sounds minor. Tiling onto ply and onto chipboard floors can be successful.


I agree in bathrooms, particularly when using electric underfloor heating, then thermal backer boards (eg Warmup Insulation boards) are well worth laying. But I maintain that 6mm cement backer boards won't be a cure for flexible ply or chipboard floors -cement boards don't add much flexural strength to the existing floor, compared with a ply overlay (which only needs to be thoroughly clout nailed).

You can't be serious ????

 

[Andrew]

It is certainly dependent on budget, hence I'm sorry to be a snob but I will only work on projects where the budget allows you to do things properly!

 

[ythan]

You can't be serious??? Yes.





Yes, sure you can't use clout nails on cement backer boards - the boards aren't strong enough....... BUT on ply, clout nails are so low cost and quick & easy to bang in that you can be over generous and use plenty to ensure very secure fixing.

Budgets and jobs are tight and getting tighter >> so need to do a good job at the lowest cost......a reputation for gold plating a job is no good.

Anyway my suggestion to the original grout cracking problem was to try fully re-grouting the tiles, and not to panic, and rip it all out.

 

[andy-p]

You don't nail plywood, screws only.

 

[Andy Allen]

budget to tight to buy a box of screws...:lol:

 

[kilty55]

the clout nails are probs more expensive than the screws

 

[kilty55]

just skim the floor with multi finish much cheaper

 

[Andrew]

And fix the tiles with acrylic ready mix adhesive/ grout in one, to ensure a long lasting perfect job!

 

[dave l and l]

what you need to remember is the the grout is cracking out for a reason and is probably down to the floor flexing a bit. now if you just re grout without fixing the problem it will probably happen again, hence fixing the problem the now makes more sense than just re grouting.
6 mm ply wood is not really viable to tile onto. and to nail it down probably is not the best idea either. even if you cant price for certain materials because of there price you can still budget for heavier grade ply and a box of screws. nailing down is a diy job or someone who is too lazy to screw

 

[Bathfix Bob]

I could probably drive screws faster than hammer nails and 10x better fixing.

 

[John Benton]

You can't be serious??? Yes.





Yes, sure you can't use clout nails on cement backer boards - the boards aren't strong enough....... BUT on ply, clout nails are so low cost and quick & easy to bang in that you can be over generous and use plenty to ensure very secure fixing.

Budgets and jobs are tight and getting tighter >> so need to do a good job at the lowest cost......a reputation for gold plating a job is no good.

Anyway my suggestion to the original grout cracking problem was to try fully re-grouting the tiles, and not to panic, and rip it all out.

Dream on, you wouldn't put a band-aid on a broken leg. It won't do the job it is meant to do.

Reputation is something that has to be built over a period of time with quality work. No wonder skilled men are out of work when they are pricing against someone who is cutting corners and quality of materials. I bet these guys who do that never get called back for repeat work in customers houses and don't get recommended!

 

[afright]

15mm then prime with SBR,I woul use Ditra uncoupling mat as well.

 

[easzeetiler]

Another cause of grout cracking is if the mix was too dry going into the grout line.