Hollow porcelain tiles.

[UnhappyCustomer]

Long story short.

Porcelain tile laid on concrete floor. A glass was dropped on a tile resulting in a chipped and cracked tile but not a broken glass.

Knocking the tile it sounds hollow as do about 95% of the others on the floor.

Is it possible the hollow sound is a result they have not been laid property?

I would have expected a broken glass rather than tile.

 

[Colour Republic]

Sounds like they have been dot and dabbed, if so then no they haven't been laid correctly.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

I think there were laid using a notched trowel later than dot and dabbed. However when tapping them its harder to find one that's not hollow than is.
The supplier now wants paying saying there will be hollow spots due to the use of a notched trowel. I know that's BS so how should we proceed?

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

I don't think it was dot and dab, supply says the hollow sound is due to use of a notched trowel and is now demanding payment in full.

 

[Colour Republic]

I would ask them to remove the cracked tile as it needs replacing now, at that point you can see how it is fixed and if the tile is fully supported.


What type and weight of glass did you drop on it? It does sound odd that the tile would break before the glass but could have been a freak of nature and the glass caught the tile on a sweet spot.

At this point I wouldn't get in to a war of words with the tiler/supplier but just explain your concerns. If they are a decent firm they will try to ease those concerns and replacing the broken tile is a perfect opportunity for them to demonstrate that the work was carried out correctly. If it was a freak of nature then pay them for the original job and also a bit on top to cover the broken tile. If not and the floor has been poorly laid, then fight them all the way.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

The thing is there are in excess of 100 tiles with a solid sound to them. The worst sound like you are knocking on a piece of plywood fixed to a frame if that makes sense. My concerns are about the whole floor rather than the damaged spot.

 

[charlie1]

Ok, place the palm of your hand on the floor and chap the tiles with your other hand, can you feel a small vibration? If so then it sounds to me like the tiles have not bonded to the floor. In this case I'd start some exploratory work and get a tile lifted to see what's going on.

 

[nybor62]

there could be various reasons for the hollow sound ,

poor method of fixing , ie dot and dab, adhesive mixed wrong not bonded to substrate, remove cracked tile ,and post a pic please this would help determine fixing method

 

[Ian]

What substrate are the tiles fixed to?

 

[charlie1]

Concrete

 

[Colour Republic]

The thing is there are in excess of 100 tiles with a solid sound to them. The worst sound like you are knocking on a piece of plywood fixed to a frame if that makes sense. My concerns are about the whole floor rather than the damaged spot.

If there are 100 solid sounding tiles but 95% of it sounds hollow.. just how many tiles did you have laid!!!!

As mentioned above it could be that the tiles have debonded, either the adhesive didn't stick to the floor or it didn't stick to the tile.

You're not going to learn much until you take a tile up.

Has any grout cracked anywhere?

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

What substrate are the tiles fixed to?

It's a concrete floor, it may well be block and beam with as screed over. Small parts are a newly laid screed. I have no concerns about the older part of the floor that has been there for 20 years and was solid before tiled.

 

[Ian]

Concrete

Yeah sorry, should have read a bit more before posting. What made me ask that question is, is it block and beam? Solid floor but, often sounds hollow.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

If there are 100 solid sounding tiles but 95% of it sounds hollow.. just how many tiles did you have laid!!!!

As mentioned above it could be that the tiles have debonded, either the adhesive didn't stick to the floor or it didn't stick to the tile.

You're not going to learn much until you take a tile up.

Has any grout cracked anywhere?

No grout has cracked yet.

We we are talking somewhere in the region of 200 tiles laid.

 

[charlie1]

Lift a tile, take a pic then let us have a look

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Yeah sorry, should have read a bit more before posting. What made me ask that question is, is it block and beam? Solid floor but, often sounds hollow.

Please explain a bit more. When the floor was drilled to relocate the stop **** it was rock solid and in no way sounded hollow. There are also hollow spots on the solid floor (concete floor over solid insulation). I'm just wondering why the hollow Spots appear random and the broken tile has cracked. Would this not be an indication that the tile was not bonded?

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Lift a tile, take a pic then let us have a look

Sorry, I would love to do this but we are in dispute with the supplier who subcontracted this work out.

 

[charlie1]

Without a picture we are really just guessing. You say the tiles where not dabbed? A sketchy guess from me is adhesive has started skinning and tiles not back buttered but as I say, it's just a guess.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Is the new part where the problem is and could It be a calcium sulphate screed that has been laid.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Ok, place the palm of your hand on the floor and chap the tiles with your other hand, can you feel a small vibration? If so then it sounds to me like the tiles have not bonded to the floor. In this case I'd start some exploratory work and get a tile lifted to see what's going on.

On a hollow part there is a slight vibration nothing on the solid parts.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Is the new part where the problem is and could It be a calcium sulphate screed that has been laid.

No no most is on the existing floor.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Without a picture we are really just guessing. You say the tiles where not dabbed? A sketchy guess from me is adhesive has started skinning and tiles not back buttered but as I say, it's just a guess.

I understand, but how would you suggest I address it with the supplier?

I take it I am correct in not paying while there appears to be such issues.

 

[Dave]

Is there any expansion joints ? , could purely be stress debonding .. Or commonly known as tenting.

 

[The D]

solid bed will look like this and dot and dab will look like this

 

[Martyn Leeds]

I think a full story would be appropriate

Obviously you're not wanting to pay someone. But an explanation of the full story might help gather proper opinion.

IMO !

 

[charlie1]

Can you tell us the following,

1:adhesive used
2:was floor primed
3:fixing method, you said notched trowel, yes?

something is certainly not right

 

[charlie1]

I understand, but how would you suggest I address it with the supplier?

I take it I am correct in not paying while there appears to be such issues.

I really can't advise you on that mate, I'm just trying to find out if your floor is failing which I think it is

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Is there any expansion joints ? , could purely be stress debonding .. Or commonly known as tenting.

What would that look like?

There doesn't appear to be any breaks in the pattern. Which is random with no straight lines indicating an expansion joint.

 

[charlie1]

What's the dimensions of the tiled area?

 

[gamma38]

Your questions can't really be answered without lifting a tile to find out what's going on. It's a bit unfair to try and get one of the guys to commit to saying you shouldn't pay as nobody really knows what's happened, only you can decide that one. i would say a tile needs to come up, until then your doing the preverbal into the wind.

 

[UnhappyCustomer]

Can you tell us the following,

1:adhesive used
2:was floor primed
3:fixing method, you said notched trowel, yes?

something is certainly not right

1. Don't know.
2. No.
3. That's what they claim, which I think is correct.