Important Changes to Tiling Standards

[LM]

I'm a tiler, not a plasterer.

Lol, but that's what comes with the territory with some private jobs 🙁 I suppose that's why our experience in dealing with crap helps us establish Good reputations were we can more or less name our price within reason.
Then again if it's too bad and other trades are required then so be it

 

[area tiling]

It seems to be the norm these days , and when you tell the client you need a couple of Xtra bags to level out walls etc , they Moan n groan !
Id a small bathroom floor today that was 1.9 m long and was out of level by 12mm ! New floor

 

[Flintstone]

It depends how involved you want to get, I normally look at a job before I actually start it, If it needs some work then I tell them to get it sorted. If I sub to someone then it's sorted before I turn up. I don't do rip outs because it's a mucky horrible job that I don't need!

 

[Old Mod]

Interesting conversation!

 

[Lee daykin]

hi., first time on here,
But thought I’d give it a go.!
I’m trying to find clarification as to who is responsible for tiling to floors within nhbc standards on site.
We have major issues with uneven floors/screeds.
We have the groundworkers insisting they are laid tolerance, and we have our 3mm at each end of a 2m straight edge tolerance when tiling.
There is a grey are In between the two., as to who is responsible to Make the screed flat to tile to., and indeed whether tiles should be laid to level., or laid to flat.
The screeds are allowed a tolerance of 25 mm out of level over 6 m., which begs the question if we lay level to that maximum tolerance, who is responsible for extra costs involved.
This way also throws up issues at doorways if one end of the house is 25mm higher than the other.
Any bonefide nhbc info would be greatly accepted!!
Thanks lee

 

[LM]

The builder is supposed to provide you with a floor fit for tiling, within standards. If it’s not then you should ask him to correct it by either grinding down high spots or levelling low points or in most cases both. If he doesn’t want to do it then he should pay you to do it. If not then walk imo. Begin as you mean to go on, if you start tiling sub standard screeds he’ll expect you to do the same on every other floor.

 

[Lee daykin]

Hi lee thanks for your reply.
Generally the builders pay us to level the floors. Which we do with a 3m straight Edge and staff it off of the highest points, filling in the dips. Then tile to our 2m +\- 3mm tolerance
The argument now is that we do this to flat and not level. If we went to level, we could have steps at doorways., unless we level the entire house which is obviously not an option.
I guess what I’m looking for is clarification over the level or flat debate.! The is issue on this occasion is that they now want the hallway tiled after having tiled the kitchen to flat., the hallway has a hump
In it, and they’re trying to put it on us that if the floor was tiled to level the jump would not be an issue.
However there would have been a step at the doorway originally. Hope this all makes sense!
Thanks

 

[LM]

When the screed is installed it has three datums that it has to meet which should all be the same, the exterior door sills, the bottom of the interior door frames and the bottom of the stairs. If the screed is meeting all these points then it can't be too far out and if it isn't then there's going to be major issues. If the floor is so far out in the hall the front door probably wont open and the bottom riser height of the stair will be out of acceptable limits for building control. If it's that bad have them take it out and replace it.

 

[Ajax123]

are you talking screed or concrete.

Surely levelling the floor is a contractual issue.

As you rightly say flat and level are different things. I would think flat is more important than level if there is only 25mm fall over 6m.

The screed standards and the concrete standards are generally not very explicit about specific requirements for flatness or levelness. But the contractor will presumably have a specification for the concrete and you will have a specification for the tiling requirements which should be explicit.

 

[Lee daykin]

Yes these are supposed powerfloated screeds., for bovis, Redrow.. laid at slab before walls erected.
it’s a common issue where we are., the nhbc spec is very vague regarding tiling.. (as always).
Trouble is they’re getting ground workers to lay Screeds!

 

[LM]

If I were you and you didn’t want to ditch the job then I’d just charge for my pain. I’m well experienced at dealing with pathetic floors (@John Benton) I’ll do what I have to so long as it makes financial sense. Sooner or later the QS will realise that it’s cheaper to employ professional Screeder’s to do the job properly than to pay you to sort out bad screeds.

 

[John Benton]

If I were you and you didn’t want to ditch the job then I’d just charge for my pain. I’m well experienced at dealing with pathetic floors (@John Benton) I’ll do what I have to so long as it makes financial sense. Sooner or later the QS will realise that it’s cheaper to employ professional Screeder’s to do the job properly than to pay you to sort out bad screeds.

More like ploughed fields Lee

 

[Lee daykin]

Hi gents..
So after a day of emails and phone calls for future reference.
I have it from the horses mouth that is our local nhbc inspector..
screeds are allowed a tolerance of 25mm over 6m, or 4mm per m.
As w knew, and the tolerance for tiling is -/+ 3mm over a 2m srraight edge.
Straight edge being the key word. Not level.
So if the kitchen for example is laid to flat, and then the hallway or any adjoing Room needs tiling as an afterthought., any undulations in that are are treated as a separate entity, and need grinding down/levelling to suit..
thanks for all the reply’s., so kind as someone else is covering the costs then all good.!!
Cheers lee

 

[Julia84]

I posted yesterday about the poor job that has been made of our shower wall tiles. Since then I’ve become something of an expert on tiling (haha) and have another query regarding our floor tiles. The lippage seems excessive in areas. Photos of the worst area below. Is that acceptable?

Further more this week I’ve found a cracked floor tile that definitely wasn’t there before. No one remembers dropping anything on the floor but it kind of looks like a blunt force from above so I am willing to accept it must be something we’ve done. However, given the poor job elsewhere there’s a slight concern this is due to the way the tiles have been laid?

Bathroom all 7 months old. Will include a picture of when the tiles were being laid.

Thanks!

 

[hmtiling]

I'm afraid it's atrocious. Both in method and finish

I posted yesterday about the poor job that has been made of our shower wall tiles. Since then I’ve become something of an expert on tiling (haha) and have another query regarding our floor tiles. The lippage seems excessive in areas. Photos of the worst area below. Is that acceptable?

Further more this week I’ve found a cracked floor tile that definitely wasn’t there before. No one remembers dropping anything on the floor but it kind of looks like a blunt force from above so I am willing to accept it must be something we’ve done. However, given the poor job elsewhere there’s a slight concern this is due to the way the tiles have been laid?

Bathroom all 7 months old. Will include a picture of when the tiles were being laid.

Thanks!

View attachment 100304 View attachment 100305 View attachment 100306 View attachment 100307

 

[Julia84]

I'm afraid it's atrocious. Both in method and finish

Could you elaborate so I can question them when they come round tomorrow?

 

[hmtiling]

Fi

Could you elaborate so I can question them when they come round tomorrow?

It's been spot fixed and fixed to ply. Should have been overboarded with cement board, levelled then tiled use a notched trowel.
Was it a general builder by chance?

 

[Julia84]

Fi

It's been spot fixed and fixed to ply. Should have been overboarded with cement board, levelled then tiled use a notched trowel.
Was it a general builder by chance?

By spot fixed do you mean dot and dab? As

Fi

It's been spot fixed and fixed to ply. Should have been overboarded with cement board, levelled then tiled use a notched trowel.
Was it a general builder by chance?

Thankyou. I don’t think it’s been spot fixed, I remember them laying it and the whole floor was covered in stuff I think? That last picture is before they cut the tile for round the radiator pipes.

Could the fact it’s been fixed to ply have caused the crack?

Does that lippage look like it conforms to industry standards? Does any of it conform to industry standards?!

 

[Dumbo]

Surely the best way to get new houses tiled correctly using to correct preparation materials is for the likes of NHBC not to sign houses off If they have tiles on ply walls . Heavy tiles on skimmed walls etc . Surely the the tta should canvas them explaining risks associated with bad instalation .Or is it NHBC don't care because they don't pay out either

 

[One Day]

Tta should be much more proactive in many many areas I think. But there's always that little problem of funding and turning a profit

 

[One Day]

And you need to remember that most builders cannot read, so the cost of producing picture books that can explain best practise tiling techniques would be very high indeed!

 

[Dumbo]

And you need to remember that most builders cannot read, so the cost of producing picture books that can explain best practise tiling techniques would be very high indeed!

They would soon learn to read if guarantee man wasn't signing it off and mortgage man then wouldn't release the money to client who needs it to make stage payment .

 

[Perfect Tiling]

I've had a few floors and walls to retile after a couple of years.....customer usually tries NHBC and the usual answer is the tiles are cosmetic and not structural so not covered

 

[Fitwidge]

I want to read though the British standards for tiling.

Do i:
A. Buy them online

B. Buy a tiling book with lots if not all of the information a need to become a professional tiler (recommended books?)

C. I’ve managed to get the bs up on my computer but i cant read on there for too long, hurt ma eyes!
So in other words, push through it on the comp?

Thanks!

 

[Blunt Tool]

I want to read though the British standards for tiling.

Do i:
A. Buy them online

B. Buy a tiling book with lots if not all of the information a need to become a professional tiler (recommended books?)

C. I’ve managed to get the bs up on my computer but i cant read on there for too long, hurt ma eyes!
So in other words, push through it on the comp?

Thanks!

There was a link to how to get it on here a while back

 

[Fitwidge]

There was a link to how to get it on here a while back

I have tried scanning through but can’t find anything, I actually signed upto Newcastle Library, but it’s no longer available there now 🙁

I’ll keep scanning!

 

[Blunt Tool]

Tiling Standards : British Standards in Wall and Floor Tiling BS 5385 (Free) - https://www.tilersforums.com/tiles/tiling-standards/

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I have tried scanning through but can’t find anything, I actually signed upto Newcastle Library, but it’s no longer available there now 🙁

I’ll keep scanning!

You can blame Mike Ashley for that!

 

[Italy]

You can blame Mike Ashley for that!

who is this cazzo of mike ashley?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

He’s the owner of Newcastle United.
Been their 10 years and is possibly the most disliked owner of any football club in the English Premier League.
A billionaire who buys businesses, strips them of all dignity and assets and bullies those associated into thinking he is helping them.
A real cockney bastard! ( ie born out of wedlock).

 

[Italy]

He’s the owner of Newcastle United.
Been their 10 years and is possibly the most disliked owner of any football club in the English Premier League.
A billionaire who buys businesses, strips them of all dignity and assets and bullies those associated into thinking he is helping them.
A real cockney bastard! ( ie born out of wedlock).

thanks john