movement felt in 600x600 porcelane tiles

[sevman]

as a result of this flex the grout is cracking and working loose. I used Topps rapid set flexible adhesive and bal flexible grout. Tiled onto a very solid timber floor that was applied with an acrylic primer. Nothing wrong with the workmanship, think it may be the adhesive. very disapointed and confused diy'er. Please help.

 

[DHTiling]

hello and welcome to the forums..........

Can you talk us through your prepping of the floor...did you overply etc...what substrate is it ? ( boards/chipboard/ply)...what size trowel did you use? and what was your fixing method.?????..this will help us try to see what has happened........

 

[MICK the Tiler]

G'day and welcome to the forums

As dave has said we need some more info. Tiles fail for a reason we need to know more about the specs of the job to see if there is a cause for the failure.

Don't just blame the materials.

 

[enduro]

With tiles that big i would of buttered the backs of those babies.

 

[GazTech]

Welcome to the forums..............Gaz

 

[robbo]

Welcome to the forums bud

 

[sevman]

Its a new timber floor. I used 22mm treated chip board, screwed, 12mm marine ply glued and screwed every 6-8". An acrylic primer. I think the flex in the tile is where it has lifted from the adhesive. I am sure the adhesive has not taken to both surfaces sufficiently. Has anyone used topps trade flexi rapid set adhesive before? Should I have used bal? not sure what size trowell I used. I have lifted one tile which came up very easy.

 

[GazTech]

Has the adhesive not stuck to the porcelain, or has it not stuck to the plywood ?

 

[sevman]

I think its both. I think it took better hold of the tile rather than the floor.

 

[TilingLogistics]

I have to say I would only fix that size tile with PTB with porcelbond. However, it does not get around the fact that the addy didn't bond to the primed ply either! Strange:huh2:

Kev

 

[DHTiling]

This could be a number of problems...

1. Some adhesives do not require the ply to be primed......

2. The adhesive was not wet enough to bond to the tile or ply...( to dry a mix )

3. The adhesive was left to long before fixing the tile..

4. A solid fix was not obtained between tile and substrate...

If in doubt of the adhesive etc just call the manufacturer and they will send someone out........

good luck and let us know your findings.............

 

[sevman]

thanks I will look into that. Are these products available from all tile outlets? What sort of price am I looking to cover 19 square metres? The manager from topps is coming to see the job on tuesday so will see what he has to say.

 

[GazTech]

I think its both. I think it took better hold of the tile rather than the floor.

If you ask the manager at Topps where you purchased the adhesive to request a visit from the Palace Chemical rep, he may well be able to test the adhesive to ensure it is ok. Toppfix adhesives are manufactured by Palace ....I hope this helps.....Gaz

http://www.palacechemicals.co.uk/

 

[DHTiling]

No disrespect to the topps guy but is he qualified to do a technical report on this.......he will more inclined to say it has nothing to do with topps and pass the buck maybe.......i would ring palace adhesives and get some technical advice off them...........

 

[sevman]

cheers dave. Dont know how or what effect a primed surface would have on an adhesive. I am sure the adhesive was not too wet and we only worked on approx 4 square metres at a time so it was not left in the bucket for long at all. I think I will try fixing a spare tile to some left over un primed ply and see what happens.

 

[DHTiling]

What i mean by the primer thing is.. if you called the tech line and said OH!! i primed and they don't recommend it then you are stuffed for any come backs..........if you see what i mean.........

let us know whats what when he has been out...

 

[TilingLogistics]

cheers dave. Dont know how or what effect a primed surface would have on an adhesive. I am sure the adhesive was not too wet and we only worked on approx 4 square metres at a time so it was not left in the bucket for long at all. I think I will try fixing a spare tile to some left over un primed ply and see what happens.

Crikey!!! 4M2 at a time thats 11 of those sodding things isn't it?

Kev

 

[sevman]

sorry, not 4 square metres, 4 or 5 tiles at a time, which was about half a bag, I think
----
Its the primer thing that concerns me. Get out clause for them, (hope not). I have just looked at the adhesive bag which has a date on 2/3/08. Will this mean its out of date or is that date of packaging? May that have affected anything?

 

[aejrd]

palace adhesives are crap anyway..avoid them like the plague!!! mapei is the gear u want ..keraquick is as good as arduflex 7001 and half the price!!

 

[Rad2474]

I done my kitchen floor with 600x600mm pocelian using tile it all's own brand of flexiable adhesive and flexi grout onto concrete and primed they are rock solid.Must admit i'm not keen on working with that size of tile and i've got a job coming up over the next few weeks with them and customer wants black grout. :mad2:

 

[Perry]

? did you screw the chipboard to the joists first

 

[grumpygrouter]

palace adhesives are crap anyway..avoid them like the plague!!! mapei is the gear u want ..keraquick is as good as arduflex 7001 and half the price!!

Interesting point about Keraquick and Ardex 7001. Keraquick is supposed to be mixed with Latex Plus for use on timber floors. 7001 uses just water. You sure that keeps it at half the price?

 

[GazTech]

If you ask the manager at Topps where you purchased the adhesive to request a visit from the Palace Chemical rep, he may well be able to test the adhesive to ensure it is ok. Toppfix adhesives are manufactured by Palace ....I hope this helps.....Gaz

http://www.palacechemicals.co.uk/

If there is a possible failure, Palace should be able to determine it......Gaz

 

[aejrd]

at ctd 7001 is £35 a bag retail +vat !! just 4 the bag. keraquick is £16inc vat at nec or wtc .u only need the latex in if yr goin straight on2 floorboards makes it like fastflex! u can also do that with kerequick and the latex is only a tenner!!

 

[DHTiling]

Ardex 7001 is actually only £19.95 +vat at the moment at CTD.....

 

[grumpygrouter]

Ardex 7001 is actually only £19.95 +vat at the moment at CTD.....

Sadly I don't have one near to me.:frown2:

 

[aejrd]

only just done that due to competition from mapei!! am sure thats 2 shops and fixers mind dave.not retail.

 

[DHTiling]

Sadly I don't have one near to me.:frown2:

wouldn't make any difference if there was russ.....scotland CTD's are not in the promotion..........:huh2:

 

[sevman]

the chipborad was screwed. The floor is as good as concrete. No movement at all. So far no body has suggested bal rapid set flexi. I was thinking this would solve my problem. Not looking forward to lifting 19 square metres of tiles then scraping all adhesive and grout off both surfaces though. :huh2:

 

[DHTiling]

It is trade prices YES...but come to think of it ..We are trade arn't we.....

only just done that due to competition from mapei!! am sure thats 2 shops and fixers mind dave.not retail.

 

[grumpygrouter]

the chipborad was screwed. The floor is as good as concrete. No movement at all. So far no body has suggested bal rapid set flexi. I was thinking this would solve my problem. Not looking forward to lifting 19 square metres of tiles then scraping all adhesive and grout off both surfaces though. :huh2:

If you are laying tiles onto a ply overlay, my choice would be Ardex-flex 7001. Designed specifically for that type of job. Mixed very thin as standard to give a solid bed without back buttering. Makes it go a long way as well as you can generally use a smaller notch trowel.

I recently did a floor of 7m2, 300x300 ceramics and used 1 bag.