Not happy with tiling job - or am I being picky?

[sjb1288]

Hi All, I’ve just had 2 rooms tiled with oak effect ceramics and I feel a little disappointed with the final result.

The tiler used self-leveller to even the floor prior to laying but I feel that this should have been done with more care, and that many of the subsequent problems are a result of this…

I’ve used the closest thing I have to a 2m straight edge to check the flooring and I’m finding regular deviations of around 5-6mm. Offering up the skirting has highlighted a couple of areas far worse at 10mm & 14mm. The tiler has offered to rectify these two areas but I still have my doubts about the overall quality of the job and feel it was rushed. He spent no more than a few hours on the screed and then 3 days to lay both rooms totalling over 30 sq.m. I worry that in correcting these local defects with extra adhesive or whatever, he simply creates new problems elsewhere.

There are also several areas of lipping affecting at least half a dozen tiles in each room of 2,3 & 4mm. The British Standard BS 5385 seems to say that 1mm is the tolerance for such narrow 2mm joints? The standards also seem to suggest a tolerance for levelness of 3mm over a 2m edge? I’ve only garnered this info online and haven’t actually read the specific standards but I’m wondering to what extent I could use this as a stick to beat him with?
I’ve already paid £1000 in labour for the job but frankly I feel it isn’t justified. I know he’s legally entitled to try and rectify it but short of ripping it all up, I can’t see me getting a result that’s compliant with the relevant standards?

I feel the best outcome for me would be to get him to fix what he can then attempt to get compensation for the rest.. Sadly I’ve already had to sue someone for a failed floor in the past so I’m all too familiar with the small claims process!

Any help much appreciated, please see photos below..

 

[Dumbo]

Looks rough .
The 2 metre straight edge thing is .
+ or - 3mm over 2m using a straight edge with 3mm feet on each end .
So basically with that the floor shouldn't touch the straight edge and the gap between the straight and the floor shouldn't exceed 6mm

 

[J Sid]

Think your carpenter should be shot, shocking effort at putting skirting on, bloody shocking 😳
As for the cross light, even a very good job will look bad with that light

 

[Boggs]

That bond looks dreadful imho.

 

[angrypirate]

Not the best job. That light just exacerbates things. Would be interested to see how it's rectified.

 

[Tony_C]

That bond looks dreadful imho.

I was thinking this too, if those tiles are bowed which most planks are that bond won't he helping matters

 

[J Sid]

That bond is probably what the box said to do, as most boxes for planks say

 

[Tony_C]

That bond is probably what the box said to do, as most boxes for planks say

Is it not usually third bond they show? That doesn't even look like a quarter bond

 

[sjb1288]

Just to let you know the skirting hasn't actually been fitted yet, I was just offering it up to see how it sat and will be doing the job myself.. probably with a planer but my point is I shouldn't have to resort to that..

Yes, the box specifically warned against brick bond for some reason and suggested 20% max overlap

 

[angrypirate]

Planks are prone to being curved so most manufacturers will advise against brick bond, generally though they would be laid random lengths.

 

[Dumbo]

Just to let you know the skirting hasn't actually been fitted yet, I was just offering it up to see how it sat and will be doing the job myself.. probably with a planer but my point is I shouldn't have to resort to that..

Yes, the box specifically warned against brick bond for some reason and suggested 20% max overlap

You want to try just pushing the skirting down If you plane the ends you're then going to have to plane the adjacent boards .

 

[Boggs]

Use a short scaffold plank on top of the skirting and stand on it to push the skirting down as it’s fixed.

 

[Dave]

Immaterial of the bond , the lippage is not acceptable imho.
It will be difficult to rectify individual tiles as it could create lippage on the next row.

 

[sjb1288]

Immaterial of the bond , the lippage is not acceptable imho.
It will be difficult to rectify individual tiles as it could create lippage on the next row.

These are exactly my thoughts, at the moment I'm trying to gauge what would be acceptable compensation in that case. Half my money back? All of it?

 

[sjb1288]

Well I've checked all the spare tiles I've got and nothing wrong with any of them, all straight and true. They're Spanish tiles if that means anything to anyone?

The problem I've got about giving him the chance to spot-remedy things is that the job will likely still be sub-standard. The bottom line is he didn't prepare the sub-floor correctly and nothing short of ripping it all up will solve that.

I don't want to be in the position of having to pay full price for a polished turd, but at the same time I don't know if the job is bad enough to flat out refuse remedial work and demand my money back / threaten small claims?

Aside from the 10-15mm howlers he's said he'll try and fix, there's still regular 6mm deviations over a 2m edge elsewhere and more lipping than I can shake a stick at..

 

[Andy Allen]

you say the tiles are straight and there's nothing wrong with them...
how did you check this..??

 

[sjb1288]

you say the tiles are straight and there's nothing wrong with them...
how did you check this..??

Measured the depth with a steel rule along the edges, and ran a spirit level across the tops with them butted against each other. Certainly nothing that would make lipping unavoidable...

 

[Andy Allen]

Measured the depth with a steel rule along the edges, and ran a spirit level across the tops with them butted against each other. Certainly nothing that would make lipping unavoidable...

you need to put them face to face to check if there bowing, like this...

 

[sjb1288]

So there's a little bowing if you put them back to back like above, but this must be why the manufacturer specified no brick bond? There are cases where I have lipping along the full tile length though so this can't explain that.. Also, if the BS states max 1mm lipping for joints this small, surely the tiles should be designed to make this possible and that it's the installer's responsibility to check that it can be achieved?

 

[Dumbo]

These are exactly my thoughts, at the moment I'm trying to gauge what would be acceptable compensation in that case. Half my money back? All of it?

Compensation isn't going to make the lips go away or make you happy with th

So there's a little bowing if you put them back to back like above, but this must be why the manufacturer specified no brick bond? There are cases where I have lipping along the full tile length though so this can't explain that.. Also, if the BS states max 1mm lipping for joints this small, surely the tiles should be designed to make this possible and that it's the installer's responsibility to check that it can be achieved?

You would think that about tiles , but as tilers we as the people at the end of the line have to deal poor quality materials and try and make a good job out of it.
Just one thing to remember when negotiating with your tiler british standard are not law, they are not even buildings regs they are just recommended code of good practice

 

[JMC tiling]

doesn't look great but the chances are that the planks will be slightly bowed which will cause lippage no matter what the installer does. The light is probably making it look worse aswell. Any half decent carpenter will be able to scribe them skirtings in to lose the gaps. Can't really see what the tiler can do now apart from re-do the lot if i'm honest and maybe could re-pay you a few quid for the sub-standard finish. wouldn;t bother with court etc though.

 

[J K Tiling Cornwall]

I had some similar plank tiles to lay earlier on this year. They all had a slight bow some worse than others. Had to clip them all, used a ton of clips which made removing and cleaning them take twice as long. Tried not to bond them no more than a 3rd. I wouldn't get too hung up on the deviation over a 2metre straight edge, sometimes you have to follow variations in the floor to a degree but can still avoid lippage. Depends really on how much prep/self levelling was allowed for. But I think the tiler should be given the opportunity to try and rectify the worse areas.

 

[sjb1288]

Had to clip them all, used a ton of clips which made removing and cleaning them take twice as long.

So does using clips go a long way to solving the problem? Would they have ensured lipping was minimised to at least BS guidelines? I spoke to him on the phone and he said 'ah yeah, those clips are for people that don't know what they're doing..' I bit my tongue until I have all the facts.

 

[J Sid]

So does using clips go a long way to solving the problem? Would they have ensured lipping was minimised to at least BS guidelines? I spoke to him on the phone and he said 'ah yeah, those clips are for people that don't know what they're doing..' I bit my tongue until I have all the facts.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yes we haven't a clue what we are doing

 

[Dan]

Oh god.

When I last tiled there weren't such tiles around. When the clips first came about I was skeptical, thought it was an extra process that a good tiler doesn't need to do.

Having seen so so many threads now about bowed plank tiles (they bow when cooling when being manufactured) I now think the clips are a must.

And the proof is in the pudding lol

You didn't have clips used and have bowed lipped tiles.

Tiler choice has to come into it too. Picking the cheapest always gets you the guy who doesn't know what he's doing. I hope that wasn't the case with this one.

 

[Dhtiling]

Nothing like a guy doing bad work saying other guys don't know what they're doing.

 

[Dumbo]

Oh god.

When I last tiled there weren't such tiles around. When the clips first came about I was skeptical, thought it was an extra process that a good tiler doesn't need to do.

Having seen so so many threads now about bowed plank tiles (they bow when cooling when being manufactured) I now think the clips are a must.

And the proof is in the pudding lol

You didn't have clips used and have bowed lipped tiles.

Tiler choice has to come into it too. Picking the cheapest always gets you the guy who doesn't know what he's doing. I hope that wasn't the case with this one.

See that's the theory I work on , I'm crap but I make sure I'm pricey , there for perceived value makes people think I'm good .

 

[Bill]

Clips you say? Bowed tiles you say?

 

[angrypirate]

No need for a metal ruler on that floor 😉. Clips make all the difference on planked floors imo.

 

[Zeko124]

There is one big thing about tiles that people tend not to understand.

That there exists a Renault Clio and it costs 20k, and that there exists a Mercedes S which costs 100k. But a tile is a tile. Yea, right.

HOWEVER, looking from the customer's perspective in one hand I understand it is very hard to know what is a quality material and who to trust for advise and laying in the end.
Been laying glass tiles "worth" 650€/m2, the guy said to me watch out when laying it, it is a very expensive material. Looking at it I wanted to cry, the difference in dimensions, a bow, etc.

It is hard to say anything from the pictures, we would have to see tiles in person, try how to cut it. Clips are a must, but can't do miracles. It is still possible to do a neat job with a crap tiles. BUT the general problem at the tiler's, you put price per m2, after you get low budget material you spend twice as much time and effort to put it together, resulting in no revenue.

Don't know what to do or say in this case, folks, when buying tiles ask someone as much reliable as you can get, and check the builder's works before tiles.
Been there, done that, had stairs one week ago that seemed perfectly fine, when measuring it 4cm height difference on some spots. What to do or what to say?