Cracked natural stone tiles on heated screeds

[enduro]

I want this in an open forum because im seeing this more and more at the moment. CRACKED NATURAL STONE ON HEATED SCREEDS i have eight jobs to look at where the stone has cracked due to movement in the heated screeds, and most of the customers were not advised on heating the screed or had even heard of a uncoupling membrane.
So if you are thinking about having a natural stone floor on a heated screed use it, i know it puts an extra cost on the job but once it is down and it starts to crack you wish you had used it. And the worst one i have at the moment has a £60,000 smallbone kitcken sitting on it :yikes: Customer is not happy. Lack of information from Tile supplier, Builder and Tiler.

 

[DHTiling]

I agree , it is all down to knowledge of the substrate prep and the use of stone in certain situations..

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

I want this in an open forum because im seeing this more and more at the moment. CRACKED NATURAL STONE ON HEATED SCREEDS i have eight jobs to look at where the stone has cracked due to movement in the heated screeds, and most of the customers were not advised on heating the screed or had even heard of a uncoupling membrane.
So if you are thinking about having a natural stone floor on a heated screed use it, i know it puts an extra cost on the job but once it is down and it starts to crack you wish you had used it. And the worst one i have at the moment has a £60,000 smallbone kitcken sitting on it :yikes: Customer is not happy. Lack of information from Tile supplier, Builder and Tiler.

Do you think the makers of de-coupling membrane's ,addy, liquid screed's, stone supplier's, underfloor heating, should not get together and train tile fitters a bit more in the correct use!!!of these product's and support the tradesmen ?

 

[Mike]

i refused a large kitchen with stone recently due to the heating not been commisioned and screeding battens still in the concrete, i'm sure that one will end up the same route, i heard it's now been tiled :yikes:

 

[One Day]

I keep facing large heated screeds with no movement joints. Schluter say that Ditra would not be guaranteed even if you put surface movement joints in.

The longer I work, the more I get frustrated (put mildly) with the quality and attitude of UK builders.
I am seriously considering moving to kazakhstan or somewhere similar with better builders.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

this is one of the situation's that could give a tradesman some prob's in court under a duty of care like in the other post i did

 

[Marble Life Ltd]

Very often the problem is down to the customer. They go out and spend a small fortune on the tiles and then get a quote from a qualified tiler and nearly fall off their chairs because the Tile Shop that sold them the tiles failed to mention the costs of the Preparation, adhesive, grout and fixing was likely to cost them more than the tiles.

Kev
Marble Life Ltd

 

[Dan]

Do you think the makers of de-coupling membrane's ,addy, liquid screed's, stone supplier's, underfloor heating, should not get together and train tile fitters a bit more in the correct use!!!of these product's and support the tradesmen ?

I think the tiler should take it on himself to get trained, and then inform the customer.

Problem is like Kev says, it's the price that they don't consider when choosing the tiles and it's the area they're most likely to cut corners on as they don't understand it all. They just want that tile on that floor, and heated. Once they've bought the stuff they're not going to send it back. Or I wouldn't have thought many do. But they will keep calling tilers until one says 'yes you can do that with just this and this' and doesn't mention the drawbacks of not doing it right.

So whilst we can all get trained to the high hills, and talk the talk, it's down to the customers really. They need to start listening to the tilers, they're the fixers, not the shops.

 

[borgie]

there is a new European Directive that says all floors with wet underfloor heating should have matting installed before the fixing of natural stone. so i was told at Mapei today. I always insist on ditra when pricing these jobs, but if the customer doesn't want to pay for it , i will still tile it, but tell them i will take no responsibility for anything that happens with the floor in the future. They usually change their minds!

 

[Del W]

there is a new European Directive that says all floors with wet underfloor heating should have matting installed before the fixing of natural stone. so i was told at Mapei today. I always insist on ditra when pricing these jobs, but if the customer doesn't want to pay for it , i will still tile it, but tell them i will take no responsibility for anything that happens with the floor in the future. They usually change their minds!

Is this now in print.?

 

[One Day]

there is a new European Directive that says all floors with wet underfloor heating should have matting installed before the fixing of natural stone. so i was told at Mapei today. I always insist on ditra when pricing these jobs, but if the customer doesn't want to pay for it , i will still tile it, but tell them i will take no responsibility for anything that happens with the floor in the future. They usually change their minds!

Really need a link or something to show customers please!

 

[Peter]

Sadly a lot of customers have the attitude of "Why should I pay £10 a metre on something I won't see".

Even the same with tanking or cement boards, some people just can't see beyond the initial outlay and fail to think about the lifespan of the installation.

 

[Spud]

I would argue that the cost of the installation of the mat is not justified, if the correct expansion joints are used in the correct positions it is unnesscessary and so what if a stone cracks 90% of natural stone can be repaired so it is undetectable by properly trained stone guys save your money and buy a few extra m2 of tiles so you have spares if they do need replacing

 

[borgie]

I don't know if it is in writing. I would have thought so. Chris the training manager at mapei mentioned it. i will send him an email and see if i can get a hard copy.

 

[Marble Life Ltd]

I don't know if it is in writing. I would have thought so. Chris the training manager at mapei mentioned it. i will send him an email and see if i can get a hard copy.[/QUOT]

I don't understand this directive! Furthermore, the only country I can imagine introducing it would be Germany. The fixing of Natural Stone over underfloor wet heating is totally different because of the depth it is laid to that of underfloor mat or cable system. I will try and ring some friends of mine tomorrow in Germany and ask them.

Kevin
Marble Life Ltd