are courses better than a good book ?

[a1tiler]

Playing devils advocate here, what is the opinion on the belief that a couple of good instruction books, your own practice bay/wall and reading through these forums will give you,,, again with tons of practice as much as a 5 day course can.😕

 

[Dan]

I've read a few misleading articles and books, generally the correct way would be to get an NVQ.

Although I'd say it is possible to learn through reading and trial and error but like with anything you learn, if you can be guided by a mentor or teacher you'll learn much quicker.

Good topic mate, this should get some replies. 🙂

 

[Deleted member 15]

You'll never beat hands on for experience, courses, waste of money, read up then put into practise.

 

[devonmark]

the best way to learn anything wether it be tiling, playing a guitar, casting a fishing rod etc is to be shown...Mark.

 

[DHTiling]

a course is good for the basics..which is basically what they are designed for...not all people can get a job as an apprentice..but at least a course gives you the back ground to the tiling game...and as long as forums like this one are around then its all the help you need.....dave..

 

[crocotile]

i know courses pay to be on here but seriously, these guys are just out to cash in on the boom.

everyone on here knows in there heads and in there hearts that its best to go out with a tiler and learn even if its for the odd day here and there. i dont want to be detrimental to tilers because i wouldnt do that but its not the hardest trade in the world. a couple of good books and dvds and a few months with a good tiler is the best route and do your nvq via osat.

the bays they use are not realistic. the time on each aspect is the bare arse minimum and as i said in a previous thread. a 5 day course is five days experience split between 15 other lads?

even if you went with a real tiler for 5 days and did 1 day. floors, 2 day walls, day 3 grouting, day 4 cuts , days five setting out then it would put you in better stead than the list of things they claim they teach you.

save you 45o pound or god forbid your 1500 and split the money into 3 sections.

1.500 quid to a local tiler for a months tuition, by the end of the month you could probably labour for him after youve got to know him ;0)

2. 500 pound tools, especially some of the bargains on here occasionally

3. 500 to osat for your nvq

dont even waste your time with an in house cert, they arnt worth a light and the ocn cert is not recognised in the construction. save your 50 quid and put it in the pocket of gaz from topps and he'll thro you some work 😉

all this is common sense and its designed to help you lads not insult or patronise, i actually do care that some of you can be vunerable while you are lost, whereas these course guys as good as they may be, just want your wonga?

 

[DHTiling]

i appreciate your coments on courses and it will be argued all day long as to what is the best route...but to say that tiling isnt really quite that hard then i disagree,,because there certain sections to the trade that are specialised and not every joe soap can do them ..i.e. geometric designs and installation..and to install types of naturals requires good knowledge of the product and if correct methods arnt used then it will fail in time to come......but as courses go then not everybody has the apportunity to get a placement with a tiler or company as i did .. so the next option is to do a course of some kind..everybody has to start some where as we all did at one point ..........dave...

 

[crocotile]

yes but thats my point dave, if you paid a tiler rather than asking to work for free, then more tileres would be prepared to help out. in affect, tilers could be cheaper ways to learn than the course prices and they would learn on real life situations.

i also said that tiling wasnt the hardest trade in the world. thats a fair point. when i left school 30 years ago, tiling was classed as a semi skilled trade and if anything most tilers dont do what the old school did .. i like tiling but if you have a construction background then its easier get to grips with.

so come on time served tilers, heres your chance to make some extra money. charge 20 pound per day to teach somebody from outside your area. thats an extra 400 quis a month!!! probably cash and an extra pair of hands.

 

[devonmark]

i appreciate your coments on courses and it will be argued all day long as to what is the best route...but to say that tiling isnt really quite that hard then i disagree,,because there certain sections to the trade that are specialised and not every joe soap can do them ..i.e. geometric designs and installation..and to install types of naturals requires good knowledge of the product and if correct methods arnt used then it will fail in time to come......but as courses go then not everybody has the apportunity to get a placement with a tiler or company as i did .. so the next option is to do a course of some kind..everybody has to start some where as we all did at one point ..........dave...

spot on...

 

[DHTiling]

these courses also teach people who just want to learn tilng but cant afford to give up there regular day jobs so workin with a tiler full time isnt an option....as i said before this could go on for ages discussing the pro's and cons but at the end of the day its a course designed to give experiance and thats it..then they can go onto to do nvq,s etc from there...happy tiling eh!..........dave..

 

[grumpygrouter]

I have to say that I feel that Crocotiles comments are a bit patronising. To say that tiling isn't the hardest trade in the world under-values every tiler that goes out and does a top class job.

I have found - during my course - that tiling is much harder than I first thought, so much so that I considered whether it was for me as a career move. Unlike other trades - plumbing for instance (and no disrespect to these guys either), you **** up in tiling and it is on view for all the world to see. Othert trades can "hide" errors more easily than the final finishing trades. Add to the fact that 2 or 3 kg of marble falling on you in the bath can cause a lot of damage to a person (child, god forbid) I think the job must be done properly.

Spending 500 notes to spend a day with a tiler could potentially be a waste of money, you don't know where he was trained, if at all, and if he is poor at what he does then he will teach you to be a poor tiler too!

At least reputable training schools use qualified, experienced tilers to teach. And yes, they are after your wonga, after all, that is their living, just like I am after the wonga of every customer that I tile for. That is the whole point of being in business.

:icon8: Grumpy

 

[Rad2474]

I did a course and am happy with what i learned. How many 'good' books do you buy to find out which one is the 'good book'? A book can't answer questions you want to ask.How do you know the tiler you pay to train you isn't a cowboy?why would he train you? you might take his business from him. Yes course centre's are a business and they are there to make money but if you do your research and use a good one you should have no regrets,just look at the feedback from where i did mine. NETT. Should have a poll Dan,how many people are short course and are doing ok.

 

[Ric]

how many tilers you hook with for a month would be happy you e-mailing them every night etc asking for advice??????? iam quite happy with the course i did and quite confident to go to jobs for people with what i have learned+(bit of practice) Nett course took my money/i learn/do jobs for others/get my money back/start making profit! thats life!!

 

[crocotile]

well if nett can teach you to tile in 5 days then that goes to prove my point that tiling isnt hard to begin with,,

some of you on here need to read before you react. i have just jumped on the thread and gave my advice. it was actually aimed at helping people, not ripping courses to pieces.

in answer to rad, how do you know the course trainer is any good?? if he was that good then why isnt he out there tiling instead of teaching..i'll tell you why because, theres more monety to be had teaching gullable muppets with 500 pound to blow....get real will you, a trade is 3 years with a time served pro, not 5 days or 4 week s in a simulated set up with a poor mans gordon ramsey who cant hack it in the real world!! oh wait for it, d h ceramics will now delete the post like he has done with a couple of others of mine. even tho i havent swore, havent been racist, just possibly ruined a paid sponsors ego.

dear dear me come on lads, get a grip...

 

[versatilene]

well said croc, As an ex school woodwork teacher, turned general builder, turned tiler (over a period of 30 years) I would generaly agree with you croc; If your a practical person tiling is not too difficult, but to be shown any skill by a good operator is always better than a text book. I also don't quite understand the veneration this site has for teaching centres, there is no control over who sets up and teaches in centres so why should we assume they are a good thing? If we admit the truth, the trade is saturated by crap tilers (as well as the many good ones) mostly churned out by short courses, (you only have to read some of the banal questions asked by 'professional tilers' on this forum to realise this, questions that any pro should know before taking a customers money. We all want to encourage keen people to become tilers, but not to expect an excellent living before they know what they are doing. Sorry if this hurts anyone but it's the truth.

 

[a1tiler]

let`s have more from the course providers, this after all is your chance to qualify the services that you offer.

 

[ryanbrown]

Personally I'm anticipating a crap slary for at least the next 18 months.

 

[crocotile]

you see the problem in life is if we dont conform to a certain opinion then we become extrodited....forums have trends, they have followers and if you speak against it becomes a lord of the flies mentality. its a shame really because you and i are trying to help the same people who critisize us for our alleged outspoken opinions,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[crocotile]

if i had to speak kindly of a course then it would be darren of NETT. at least he only advocates a 5 day course. he is good according to his overwhelming feedback excellent and he believes that you can learn adequatley in 4-5 days rather than paying nearly 2k for 4 weeks. fair play to him, a rebel with a cause

 

[ryanbrown]

Tiling isnt hard to begin with - but its challenging to go on with.

No course can guarantee you financial success, and thats why they don't do that - they show you the potential and the rest is up to you.

Even if you tot up the people who make a successful career move - and those that don't - as a way of gauging the success of tiling course it would be a
meaningless statistic because it doesnt take into account that about 35-40% of new businesses startups FAIL generally anyway (within 3 years of starting up) - regardless of what the business is !

So does that tell you much about the quality of a tiling course or an individuals ability to balance the books?
Also, to a small degree some people just want to learn a new skill regardless not neccessarily with the intention of starting a business.

A fairer question would be to ask people if they thought the course was worthwhile for THEM, and let people interprate that how they want.

If an individual finds a course on anything worthwhile, and got what they wanted out of it - surely thats all that matters isnt it?

 

[crocotile]

a very fair and valid input from ryan ;0)

 

[Deleted member 15]

i appreciate your coments on courses and it will be argued all day long as to what is the best route...but to say that tiling isnt really quite that hard then i disagree,,because there certain sections to the trade that are specialised and not every joe soap can do them ..i.e. geometric designs and installation..and to install types of naturals requires good knowledge of the product and if correct methods arnt used then it will fail in time to come......but as courses go then not everybody has the apportunity to get a placement with a tiler or company as i did .. so the next option is to do a course of some kind..everybody has to start some where as we all did at one point ..........dave...

Trust me tiling isnt hard, now geometric's, how often would an average tiler do them, not very often, a newbie could easily pass on those types of jobs, and naturals are all about the prep, read all about it and it'll be no different to ceramic and porc.

Is the average course going to teach you about geometrics and naturals no, it will be ceramic, waste of money, of which someone has said could be spent on tools .

 

[james]

their doesn't seem to be colleges about teaching tiling properly.
and some peoples work is shocking even after 20 years tiling.
if i could do a college course near me i would i just couldnt find one.

 

[ryanbrown]

Getting back to the main thread - books are bit convuluted really, but if you do get one "ceramic and stone tiling" by john ripley is pretty good but it can make it all sound a bit daunting. I can imagine it would get a bit like a mechanics manual - completely covered - but in adhesive.

Also videos/dvds are just a total joke. I watched one and it said you start at the windowsills (I assume you knock one up if there isnt one already there - and re-introduce yourselves to the neighbours) and centre it and work out from there onto the main wall with the groutlines matching up! even if this leaves an impossibly thin strip of tile at your corner!

A combination of a short course and work experience with a good tiler is the ideal situtaion I would say.

 

[versatilene]

I wasn't knocking the concept of training centres, A good teacher teaching practically WITH the books as aids is the quickest and best (doesn't matter whether in a centre or on the job). The point is that centres and staff are not regulated in any way for quality or qualifications, anyone can set up (just as anyone can call themselves a pro tiler) The sooner we have regulated standards for both the sooner the customers get quality gauranteed.
I am also sure there are quality centres providing a superb service just as there are quality tilers, just not all of them and somehow we need a way of finding out which is which.

 

[Fekin]

I don't think a book and your own bay can take place of doing a actually going on a course.
It would be so easy to read how to do something then start doing it, but do it wrong, and you have no one there to say "hey up, that's wrong, do it like this", so when you know nothing about something, you always need a third party there to keep an eye on what your doing, which a book cannot do.

What would be better is to do a course, then have all your books and practise area in the garage, then your own jobs, kitchen bathroom etc, as experiance on the job will never be beaten by theory alone.

 

[Shuntstick]

I am also sure there are quality centres providing a superb service just as there are quality tilers, just not all of them and somehow we need a way of finding out which is which.

"somehow we need a way of finding out which is which"
That supports why this forum is very useful and needed.

"Hablo un poco Espana" : I speak a little Spanish.
Anyway, a number of years ago when I first started learning the Spanish language I started with a book "Teach Yourself" .. great, I learned all the basics of a languge and built up vocabulary along the way.
I then moved onto a cassette course for slightly more advanced Spanish (CD was not invented then). As I progressed onto more difficult phrases and grammar I had a number of questions, for example my son asked me: how would you say: "May I ask you how old you are" and I was stumped because I could not remember "May I ask"
Fact being there is no such phrase as "May I" in Spanish, but I did not know that, I could not find it in any of the books or cassette course I owned and I had no one to ask or answer my question.
I found out much later, and most obviously, is to just say "Can I ... puedo"

I've been pretty long winded with one example, sorry, but I was just trying to show how a good book can show you the reader so much, but you need someone to guide you with your questions that will arise in any learning, as a good book, CD or DVD will not reply when you need advice.
I think this forum and the posts regarding training center/courses gives the readers a good idea what courses are good and meet your needs and those that are run by Cowboy fanchisees.

Most people can make up their minds having read this forum, the only thing I do think is very misleading on the websites is the use of the £30-40,000 earning potential of a tiler. Some people will see that and think "wow ... a 5 day course and I'll be earning $$$$$$" that's my only rant .... rant over.

 

[Fekin]

the only thing I do think is very misleading on the websites is the use of the £30-40,000 earning potential of a tiler. Some people will see that and think "wow ... a 5 day course and I'll be earning $$$$$$" that's my only rant .... rant over.

Well, it isn't impossible, but it's not easy either.

Some do make good money straight off, but many don't, but many courses do use the "come on our course and then earn big bucks 🙁

 

[versatilene]

My statement: "to be shown any skill by a good operator is always better than a text book."

quote=Dan;32400]
An ex-teacher congratulating posts that suggest a wanna-be tiler should train with any tiler to get into the trade?

Sorry Iv'e said my bit and was going to leave it at that but I have to respond to your crit (above) of my views.
Please don't misinturpret or jump to incorrect conclusions. My statement doesn't say that, the words 'any' or 'wanna-be' are not in my sentence. It clearly says 'good operator' I don't care whether that's in a centre OR on the job with a tiler, if they are good then they may be able to pass on their knowledge, what we need is a way of recognising who is good without going down the paper chase route as we are here to tile and make a living, not gather certificates.

 

[ChaseTiling]

Anybody that has any burning questions about getting value for money, qualifications and realistic expectations, then please call us using the details off the lilnk at the bottom of this post.

We are more than happy to positively involve ourselves with queries, but not to get involved in slanging matches and personal gripes from past experiences and rumours.


Chase Tiling Academy

 

[devonmark]

We are more than happy to positively involve ourselves with queries, but not to get involved in slanging matches and personal gripes from past experiences and rumours.


Chase Tiling Academy

Well said...