terracotta finish

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T

TMTservices

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Hi People,

Currently doing a terracotta floor and wanting advice on a suitable finish if you dont mind.

Terracotta has had 2 coats of boiled linseed and white spirit 4 -1 , and one coat of same but ratio of 1-1.

The customer wants to really draw out the colour in them, what would you use?

Customer has asked for 'Cardinal Red Tile polish' or something that gives a similar finish.

Preferably not a wax as I dont want the dirt to gather on them, but if it needs be then so be it?

They were a nightmare to seal initially so anything thats not too time consuming would be an added bonus as it took 2 DAYS of sealing to get them ready to lay. The most porous tiles Ive ever used without a doubt.

Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Also, myself, my van, my house, my clothes, customers house and garage STINK of linseed! haha. If I never smell that smell again, Ill be a happy man! hah

Thanks chaps.

Sean.
 
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T

Time's Ran Out

TMTservices said:
View attachment 45967

Hi - I'am not able to make the photo bigger so it's a bit difficult to see the true 'colour' of these tiles!
They look fairly mixed in blend and from your description of the customers wishes (cardinal red polish) I can't see a happy outcome for this batch of tiles.
Quite surprised at the length of time it took to seal this quantity of tiles as 20 metres would normally take no more than 3-4 hours for 1 coat, and that would be ready for a second by the time the last tile was coated. IMHO boiled linseed oil IS the way to bring out the colour in the terracotta but only if there is any depth of colour in the first place and unfortunately this batch you have look very bland to patchy and I wonder if it's a blend I have not experienced in 39 years of tiling. Although the clays are mixed and varied the oven placing looks uneven and the resulting grading seems non existent. Still I might be seeing it through blinkered glasses and that may be the look someone is after.
In a nutshell I don't think that batch of tiles will come up to the colour specified by your customer.
Click to expand...
 
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T

TMTservices

timeless john said:
TMTservices said:
View attachment 45967

Hi - I'am not able to make the photo bigger so it's a bit difficult to see the true 'colour' of these tiles!
They look fairly mixed in blend and from your description of the customers wishes (cardinal red polish) I can't see a happy outcome for this batch of tiles.
Quite surprised at the length of time it took to seal this quantity of tiles as 20 metres would normally take no more than 3-4 hours for 1 coat, and that would be ready for a second by the time the last tile was coated. IMHO boiled linseed oil IS the way to bring out the colour in the terracotta but only if there is any depth of colour in the first place and unfortunately this batch you have look very bland to patchy and I wonder if it's a blend I have not experienced in 39 years of tiling. Although the clays are mixed and varied the oven placing looks uneven and the resulting grading seems non existent. Still I might be seeing it through blinkered glasses and that may be the look someone is after.
In a nutshell I don't think that batch of tiles will come up to the colour specified by your customer.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your opinion, You can see the linseed has drawn out the colour in comparison to the raw tiles I have left over. Explained this to customer and I think its more a sheen she wants to the finish.
You say a blend you have not seen in your years, what do you mean by this? That this is a 'duff' batch of terracotta? To be honest I did bring up the wide variation in colour,with the customer prior to fitting but she was happy for me to go on.
As for the time to take to seal...we all work at differant speeds dont we?? my working day is a fairly short one as I have dad duties at 3:30 ! lol. All I know is that I was seeing terracotta and smelling linseed in my sleep! And it seemed to take for ever! lol
Click to expand...
 
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P

Perry

as you thinned the oil down it would take more coats than normal and may not of had enough and how did you put it on ? hope you got rid of of the rollers sponges or rags or the will self combust shouldn't of taken more than a few hours to seal takes longer to put the down and pick them up than to seal them lol i believe these are the same tiles but these are upside down

pjc-albums-pete-picture14347-terracotta.jpg
 
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C

Concrete guy

Back in the day, when this was a more popular product, I laid 1000's of sq/m of this stuff.

Saltillo Mexican terracotta. (Named after the town which is famous for it's production).

It is made in molds and left out in the sun to dry simply plied up on top of each other. The yellow tiles are actually the ones sat on the top of each pile and far more exposed to the sun and bleached basically.

If you treat with boiled linseed oil, don't just keep slapping it on, it will simply keep soaking it up, as you found out. Two coats with a paint roller are enough, then allowed to "cure" overnight. The oil congeals in the tile overnight and acts as an impregnating sealer.

So you've laid it, oiled it again, and it's still sucking up oil. That's normal, leave it overnight again before you grout. It doesn't matter if there is oil residue as the coarse grout you need to use with this width joint will clean off the top of the tile surface. We never used to dilute the oil, always used neat.

Give it a good clean, leave it overnight.

If the customer then wanted a finish, we would avoid wax as it was very labour intensive and never lasted a great deal of time without looking rough. So we would use HG Golvpolish, just wipe it on and allow it cure, it would create a warm satin finish, like wiping vegetable oil over the surface and bringing out the colour. It had the advantage of being removable so once a year it could be stripped and re done.

HG decided after years of using this stuff it was no good for terracotta (never knew why though) so replaced it with a bespoke product. HG Shine Seal, which I'm pretty sure does exactly what Golvpolish did.

Oh, and never ever screw up a rag or towel coated in linseed oil, the self combust. My partner at the time burnt his van out having done this once, Fire brigade out, neighbours gawping the lot!
 
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C

Concrete guy

Bubblecraft said:
Me neither. It is a non flammable liquid though can give off a heavy acrid smoke Broken Link Removed
Insurance job if I ever heard one 
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Read section 10 of the above article.

I've witnessed this happen, it completely burnt out a van as a result. On the particular product in question, there was no warning label so the case was pursued through the manufacturer and settled via their public liability insurance.
 
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J

jonnyc

ATSDiamondTools said:
Back in the day, when this was a more popular product, I laid 1000's of sq/m of this stuff.

Saltillo Mexican terracotta. (Named after the town which is famous for it's production).

It is made in molds and left out in the sun to dry simply plied up on top of each other. The yellow tiles are actually the ones sat on the top of each pile and far more exposed to the sun and bleached basically.

If you treat with boiled linseed oil, don't just keep slapping it on, it will simply keep soaking it up, as you found out. Two coats with a paint roller are enough, then allowed to "cure" overnight. The oil congeals in the tile overnight and acts as an impregnating sealer.

So you've laid it, oiled it again, and it's still sucking up oil. That's normal, leave it overnight again before you grout. It doesn't matter if there is oil residue as the coarse grout you need to use with this width joint will clean off the top of the tile surface. We never used to dilute the oil, always used neat.

Give it a good clean, leave it overnight.

If the customer then wanted a finish, we would avoid wax as it was very labour intensive and never lasted a great deal of time without looking rough. So we would use HG Golvpolish, just wipe it on and allow it cure, it would create a warm satin finish, like wiping vegetable oil over the surface and bringing out the colour. It had the advantage of being removable so once a year it could be stripped and re done.

HG decided after years of using this stuff it was no good for terracotta (never knew why though) so replaced it with a bespoke product. HG Shine Seal, which I'm pretty sure does exactly what Golvpolish did.

Oh, and never ever screw up a rag or towel coated in linseed oil, the self combust. My partner at the time burnt his van out having done this once, Fire brigade out, neighbours gawping the lot!
Click to expand...

I agree . Looks like the good mexican saltillos. elon tiles were first to bring them in about thirty years ago.would agree with everything ats says . do not just keep adding coats of oil one after another without letting it cure overnight. they will just get darker and darker.
i always found these tiles rather problematical and may be biased because i was a fired earth man mainly , but elon used to bring in their own sealers from usa, where the tiles are very common and thier sealers although horrible to use and gave a very shiny surface seal did stop the tiles from staining and helped the big issue in that these tiles have salt deposits buried in them and quite often just under the surface.their bentons traditional and duraseal 500 system was heavy duty surface seal and protected the surface.
 
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J

jonnyc

When i did a few jobs using boiled linseed oil and either wax or HG Golv on top, it was only a matter of time
and this could be 6 months or two years and then the surface would explode with large salt nodules showing underneath where top of tile popped off. bits about size of 50p in most places and all over the floor.
i suggest that you contact elon or corres who also used to specialize in these and see if they have a surface product that is compatible with linseed if that is what you have applied already.
 
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J

jonnyc

you remember the bentons as well pjc . before that they had duraseal 500 plus top coat cant remember name. even worse than bentons but it stop the tiles exploding!!!
beginning 80's it was quite weird in that there r were only two tile shops selling hand made terracotta and they were next door to each other in holland park. Elon and fired earth.
Blimey i remember those days well.
we were told to grout the tiles with bis sandstone grout but advised to have barely enough moisture in grout mix so that it just bound together in ball in your fist. fired earth were terrified of tiles staining as we were as this was new in uk.
were told to bang the grout in to joints with a squeegee that had thick rubber strip .I lost the use of my right hand for 9 months from repeptitive bashing of grout in to joints. couldnt grip anything.
 
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T

TMTservices

lol! thanks for responses guys, PJ, that finish on those terra you said was the same but upside down.. Is that the patina you mentioned ? Looks great and exactly what the customer is after! ATS the HG produce..does this give a similar look?

In regards to the fire risk!! Ive been paranoid! lol! Got to the point the other night when I woke up and threw work clothes out of bedroom window in case they burst into flames! lol! true story. Must have been dreaming about it!

What do you guys do regarding your work clobber, I got it on shirts, shorts dust sheet etc, Im assuming its the same principal???

Been up on job today cleaning them up ready for grouting tomorrow. The sealing time, I think I was just making sure to be honest, coated full tile twice using wide soft brush, it was awkward doing it due to bad weather and limited space, and again, I was being cautious with them, with having limited experience, not to mark them while handling..

Enjoyed working with them, makes a change from trav and porc which is all I seem to be doing lately
 
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C

Concrete guy

Go grab a bottle of the HG stuff and try it on some off cuts, I think it will give you the finish your customer is looking for.

Any cloths I had left over at the end of the day I used to throw in a bucket of water and leave them to soak there overnight.

If they manage to self combust in a bucket of water then I'm out of any further ideas!

It's really only an issue of not screwing the stuff up into ball - leave it flat and nothing will happen.
 
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T

TMTservices

John, just read your post after I posted that last one.

So you guys are telling me Im gonna end up with a burnt out van / customers house, exploding tiles and a hand like a claw after grouting! lol! Awesome! You'd think I was making a bomb, not laying a floor! lol!

So you reckon these are Mexican? The customer told me they were spanish( the reason for the linseed )?

They have taken the oil well, Im not sure what effect linseed would have on Saltillo?? Is it easily visible or is it an after effect ? The tiles seem fine.. keeping the water out and not staining??

Not to keen on having a customer phoning me in a coupke of months with exploding tiles! lol!

So Im reading if theyre spanish, waxes and HG gear is ok, If theyre Mexican then waxes and HG are a no go? Think Ill call elon in morning.

Thanks again for your help fellas.
 
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J

jonnyc

ATSDiamondTools said:
I think you'll find that "Saltillo" became the generic name for anything Spanish/Mexican. They are fundamentally the same thing.

It would be good to find out where they came from though.

Terra Cotta literally translates as "Fired Earth", who started their company from a small shop bringing in 6 different types of this stuff.
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dont remember Fired Earth ever selling saltillos. that was the fundamental difference between elon and fired earth. elon sold mexican and fired earth primarily sold spanish. they did both sell mexican hand made wall tiles that were all the rage.
who did you work for ats in that time?
how come no one has backed me up about exploding polyps of salt under surface of saltillos !!
 
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J

jonnyc

for the record i forgot to mention castelnau tiles in barnes who were an early contender in the terracotta stakes as well early 80's
they sold the famous and very good quality san genis variety from spain as did fired earth and they used to sell their own sealer which was engine oil !!!
this is how the spanish used to seal their terracotta tiles.
they then moved on to plastic accrylic resin sealer which was not dissimilar to PC1 from paris ceramics for thier blanc rose terracotta and parefeuille tile
No wonder ive got breathing problems!!
 
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J

jonnyc

pjc said:
yes i new graham oliver before he went to castelnau and still see him now and again
those tiles were from them in the picture
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yes , i remember him well at castelnau. he was not the owner and nice as he was not that up on the terracotta i thought and then he up and left and opened up a shop in ascot called Hyperion. Still going and done very well for himself i think.
sorry about not being able to meet today, there was an access problem as i explained today, but should be possible mon/tues next week if youre about , then im off site for few weeks and back again for another few weeks.
sorry i digress.
looked up corres tiles and they are long gone. elon still going in chelsea and using bentons traditional.
think they are best bet to ask if oil already in tiles. otherwise water based sealer always ok on top of oil but not other way round. seems like me and my exploding tiles are a figment of my imagination as no one else on this forum aware of this.it is on the net though!!so i cant have completely lost it!!
 
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J

jonnyc

pjc said:
i don't think the salt pots were anything to do with the oil but a fault in the tile used to get a lot of fired earth tiles that did it he he and saltillo is a type of mexican tile still use today now and again and was playing about with a spanish hand made today i think i worked with just about every terracotta brought into the uk and some that weren't
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have you worked with sussex terracotta . i really rated their tiles and done nice church projects with them.
what about the reaclaimed parefeuille tiles from paris ceramics and fired earth. they were actually insulation tiles under roofs in france , hence the water run marks you used to get , where water leeked through and run down tile face.
I fixed mountains of these for paris ceramics and over the years go back to clean/reseal with my restoration company . they have worn very badly in high traffic areas even with pc1 sealer and they are a definite no no for floor covering.
 
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