Eeeek Advice appreciated please - TilersForums.com

[DangerMouse]

Jackoboard seem to say you have to use 20mm board for this method? Or have I got it wrong?

If this is so, are any other suggestions of backerboard?

 

[Tile Marble Granite]

Something is causing that to happen apart from not being proper waterproofed. You will have to find out what exactly causes the water leakage. If you ignore the real reason, it will not get fixed and you will get the same down the road.

 

[DangerMouse]

Hi - Thanks, yes I've found it was the grout.
Process of elimination over months, and removing some of the ceiling below. I can see the water is dripping down through the plaster.
Using waterproof tape and plastic sheet over the tiles on that wall stopped the leak instantly. So not water pipes, the shower itself, the waste or the silicone seal. All these have been discounted.
No cracks in the tiles either.
Even though the grout looked ok and is really hard, once the tiles have bene removed the damp patches have correlated with the grout lines.
So by tanking the wall and fixing new tiles and grout (kerakoll fugabella) I'm counting on that fixing the issue. Unless you have any other suggestions I don't see what else there could be?

 

[Huddersfield Tiling]

Hi

I've had a leak from the shower to the room below. I thought it was likely the silicone seal first, so redid all silicone and removed and refitted shower enlosure.

The leak came back, so I cut out the ceiling below to see what the problem was. The drips were coming though the bottom of the plaster. So I taped a plastic sheet over the offending shower wall as a temporary measure and it was bone dry since. I tested the silicone seal again and that was fine too. I've now removed the sheet and its leaking again. So even though the grout was rock solid (could barely scratch it wiht a stanley knife) I'm pretty sure its the grout. No cracks in the tiles either.

I bought a multi-tool today with grout attachment and some Kerakoll Fugabella, with the intention of removing and re-grouting.

The bottom few tiles came away as I removed the grout. I kind of expected that but as I've raked the grout further up the walls the tiles are simply coming away. It's also taken what looks like a 1mm plaster skim away from the original plaster.

The house was renovated just before I moved in, and bathroom completely new 14 years ago. I don't think it's tanked at all (sorry I am not a tiler so have not much clue with this - be gentle!)

I'm concerned I'm going further down the rabbit hole, but want to repair if I can rather thna give up at the first hurdle and call in the pro's. I don't want to bodge it though.

My questions...

1) Shall I carry on removing the grout, removing any loose tiles with a view to fixing them back?

2) What should be under those tiles? It looks at the moment to be a very thin skim on top of the solid old wall

3) The tiles are 147mm x 147mm 5mm thick. I can't find any of these online, just lots of 150mm and these are all 147mm. Any ideas? Removing the adhesive on these will be a ballache.

All good advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hi there,
I'm afraid it's game over for that installation which looks poorly done in the first place. I'm very surprised it lasted 14 years, so I think you have admit that it's had it's day, and look to re-tiling the area. I'd start fresh with some cement boards or let the plasterboard dry out and then tank it, providing it's rigid and sound. Then tile it.

 

[Huddersfield Tiling]

Hi

I've had a leak from the shower to the room below. I thought it was likely the silicone seal first, so redid all silicone and removed and refitted shower enlosure.

The leak came back, so I cut out the ceiling below to see what the problem was. The drips were coming though the bottom of the plaster. So I taped a plastic sheet over the offending shower wall as a temporary measure and it was bone dry since. I tested the silicone seal again and that was fine too. I've now removed the sheet and its leaking again. So even though the grout was rock solid (could barely scratch it wiht a stanley knife) I'm pretty sure its the grout. No cracks in the tiles either.

I bought a multi-tool today with grout attachment and some Kerakoll Fugabella, with the intention of removing and re-grouting.

The bottom few tiles came away as I removed the grout. I kind of expected that but as I've raked the grout further up the walls the tiles are simply coming away. It's also taken what looks like a 1mm plaster skim away from the original plaster.

The house was renovated just before I moved in, and bathroom completely new 14 years ago. I don't think it's tanked at all (sorry I am not a tiler so have not much clue with this - be gentle!)

I'm concerned I'm going further down the rabbit hole, but want to repair if I can rather thna give up at the first hurdle and call in the pro's. I don't want to bodge it though.

My questions...

1) Shall I carry on removing the grout, removing any loose tiles with a view to fixing them back?

2) What should be under those tiles? It looks at the moment to be a very thin skim on top of the solid old wall

3) The tiles are 147mm x 147mm 5mm thick. I can't find any of these online, just lots of 150mm and these are all 147mm. Any ideas? Removing the adhesive on these will be a ballache.

All good advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Also, check for movement in the tray before you do anything. That tray will be on feet, and if you've had a leak, then more than likely, the wooden flooring will be damaged or rotten underneath and unstable.
Personally, I'd take the tray out, look at the base floor it's sat on and repair if unstable or let the floor dry out fully. If the floor is unstable, or moves, then the silicone seal to the tray will always split and cause water ingress by capillary action which will rise through the bottom course of tiles, and cause tile failure. Which I think was the initial cause. Small amounts of water from a failed silicone joint: drawn up the tiles, and also damaged the floor underneath. I'd seriously consider taking out the tray, re-boarding walls and possibly the floor, then tile again.
In short, it's going to be quicker to start over.

 

[Huddersfield Tiling]

Hi

I've had a leak from the shower to the room below. I thought it was likely the silicone seal first, so redid all silicone and removed and refitted shower enlosure.

The leak came back, so I cut out the ceiling below to see what the problem was. The drips were coming though the bottom of the plaster. So I taped a plastic sheet over the offending shower wall as a temporary measure and it was bone dry since. I tested the silicone seal again and that was fine too. I've now removed the sheet and its leaking again. So even though the grout was rock solid (could barely scratch it wiht a stanley knife) I'm pretty sure its the grout. No cracks in the tiles either.

I bought a multi-tool today with grout attachment and some Kerakoll Fugabella, with the intention of removing and re-grouting.

The bottom few tiles came away as I removed the grout. I kind of expected that but as I've raked the grout further up the walls the tiles are simply coming away. It's also taken what looks like a 1mm plaster skim away from the original plaster.

The house was renovated just before I moved in, and bathroom completely new 14 years ago. I don't think it's tanked at all (sorry I am not a tiler so have not much clue with this - be gentle!)

I'm concerned I'm going further down the rabbit hole, but want to repair if I can rather thna give up at the first hurdle and call in the pro's. I don't want to bodge it though.

My questions...

1) Shall I carry on removing the grout, removing any loose tiles with a view to fixing them back?

2) What should be under those tiles? It looks at the moment to be a very thin skim on top of the solid old wall

3) The tiles are 147mm x 147mm 5mm thick. I can't find any of these online, just lots of 150mm and these are all 147mm. Any ideas? Removing the adhesive on these will be a ballache.

All good advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Huddersfield Tiling]

Hi

I've had a leak from the shower to the room below. I thought it was likely the silicone seal first, so redid all silicone and removed and refitted shower enlosure.

The leak came back, so I cut out the ceiling below to see what the problem was. The drips were coming though the bottom of the plaster. So I taped a plastic sheet over the offending shower wall as a temporary measure and it was bone dry since. I tested the silicone seal again and that was fine too. I've now removed the sheet and its leaking again. So even though the grout was rock solid (could barely scratch it wiht a stanley knife) I'm pretty sure its the grout. No cracks in the tiles either.

I bought a multi-tool today with grout attachment and some Kerakoll Fugabella, with the intention of removing and re-grouting.

The bottom few tiles came away as I removed the grout. I kind of expected that but as I've raked the grout further up the walls the tiles are simply coming away. It's also taken what looks like a 1mm plaster skim away from the original plaster.

The house was renovated just before I moved in, and bathroom completely new 14 years ago. I don't think it's tanked at all (sorry I am not a tiler so have not much clue with this - be gentle!)

I'm concerned I'm going further down the rabbit hole, but want to repair if I can rather thna give up at the first hurdle and call in the pro's. I don't want to bodge it though.

My questions...

1) Shall I carry on removing the grout, removing any loose tiles with a view to fixing them back?

2) What should be under those tiles? It looks at the moment to be a very thin skim on top of the solid old wall

3) The tiles are 147mm x 147mm 5mm thick. I can't find any of these online, just lots of 150mm and these are all 147mm. Any ideas? Removing the adhesive on these will be a ballache.

All good advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hope you get it sorted

 

[DangerMouse]

Thanks Huddersfield Tiling. As this thread went dead I actually opened up a new one Which backerboard for this? - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/which-backerboard-for-this.99632/#post-979058

You're right, I'm surprised it lasted so long. Grout was rock hard and tiles never moved yet as I've stripped them off it looks like maybe the plaster wasn't primed, ridges not collapsed and the coverage was only about 40 - 50% hlding the tiles on.

The tray is rock solid. and looking up from the ceiling below there is a 2mm gap between the tray side and the wall. The water was coming in through the wall and not down the side of the tray. So I'm happy that's ok.

My first thought was the silicone seal too, but covering the wall and leaving the seal exposed stopped the leak. I even over did the silicone for a couple of weeks just to make sure.

When I stripped the tiles off I saw a few dap spots on halfway up the wall too where the grout line was.

Its all dried out now. Tiles have been off a couple of weeks. Going to board with waterproof board - not cement board as I don't see the point of cement board and tank.

 

[Huddersfield Tiling]

Thanks Huddersfield Tiling. As this thread went dead I actually opened up a new one Which backerboard for this? - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/which-backerboard-for-this.99632/#post-979058

You're right, I'm surprised it lasted so long. Grout was rock hard and tiles never moved yet as I've stripped them off it looks like maybe the plaster wasn't primed, ridges not collapsed and the coverage was only about 40 - 50% hlding the tiles on.

The tray is rock solid. and looking up from the ceiling below there is a 2mm gap between the tray side and the wall. The water was coming in through the wall and not down the side of the tray. So I'm happy that's ok.

My first thought was the silicone seal too, but covering the wall and leaving the seal exposed stopped the leak. I even over did the silicone for a couple of weeks just to make sure.

When I stripped the tiles off I saw a few dap spots on halfway up the wall too where the grout line was.

Its all dried out now. Tiles have been off a couple of weeks. Going to board with waterproof board - not cement board as I don't see the point of cement board and tank.

Okay, so the floor looks sound and dry? That's good.
Next step is If you can, get rid of the plasterboard behind the tray, and replace with said waterproof board (12.5 mm green plasterboard is only moisture resistant, not proof, and would require tanking, so using a standard plasterboard would be cheaper and more cost effective as it will have to be tanked also. A cement board would eliminate the use of tanking if joint sealed.
It's important to note that any board must sit BEHIND the tray and not on top of it prior to tiling. The tray needs be sealed with silicone to the wall with the board, then a 2mm gap for the tiles to approach the tray before a second seal of silicone is applied after tiling.

 

[DangerMouse]

Okay, so the floor looks sound and dry? That's good.
Next step is If you can, get rid of the plasterboard behind the tray, and replace with said waterproof board (12.5 mm green plasterboard is only moisture resistant, not proof, and would require tanking, so using a standard plasterboard would be cheaper and more cost effective as it will have to be tanked also. A cement board would eliminate the use of tanking if joint sealed.
It's important to note that any board must sit BEHIND the tray and not on top of it prior to tiling. The tray needs be sealed with silicone to the wall with the board, then a 2mm gap for the tiles to approach the tray before a second seal of silicone is applied after tiling.

Thank you so much for your advice, it's very helpful.

Yes, floor is sound and dry.

Its not plasterboard behind the tray. Thats a plaster skim over older plaster when the house was renovated about 14 years ago. I've pulled/scraped off any loose or soggy plaster. Its been exposed for a few weeks now and what is there in the pic is solid.

I'm planning on a 6mm waterproof board (like Delta), on a full adhesive bed and mechanically fixed. Joints sealed with aquaseal (or similar waterproof tape).
I thought that cement board should still be tanked as its water resistant but not water proof. Is that correct? If so, I don't see the point of putting up cement board and tanking when waterproof board is easier to cut and doesn't need tanking.
Happy to be told any flaws in my thinking though!

Thanks for the info about siliconing the tray to the board. I didn't know that and it doesn't look like it was done before. There is a 2mm gap between the tray and wall I can see up through the ceiling now I've removed the normal silicone from around the tray.

With the extra thickness of the board on top of the plaster, the board will probably overhang the tray by 2-3mm. Some earlier poster seemed to imply that wouldn't be a problem as I have plenty of tray. If aquaseal tanked the transition between board and tray, with tiles and silicone to go on top of that is that going to be a timebomb?