Bal or tilemaster ??quartz

[Chris G]

sorry I know there are already many different threads on what adhesive to use for quartz tiles but I’m still a bit nervous about what advise to go with . The tiles are from tile mountain who say to use Mapei Granirapid , but I can’t get hold of it in time for when I need it . Bal technical say to use pourable one with ad1/water ratio 1:3. Which i can get from ctd , i now know tilemaster ultimate is suitable which I can get from protiler. Which could save customer £100 over the bal stuff

It’s the first time fitting quartz so want to make sure get it right .

Thanks for any advice

 

[Old Mod]

Firstly where are they to be fitted in the property.
They don’t do well in areas of direct sunlight.

Secondly, is there ufh?
Very very few are suitable, you would need to get it in writing that the are suitable.
Gulf stone is one of the only tried and tested quartz tiles with ufh.

And the only true safe adhesive is a two part, bottle and bag.
The adhesive should contain little or no water.

 

[Waluigi]

This is Topps Tiles’ recommendation. From Bal

 

[White Room]

It was while ago I used Granirapid, white powder and sbr mix and it wasn't that rapid.
To be honest I'd be looking an alternative product for your tiles.

 

[Chris G]

The tiles are 93% quartz resin . It’s on concrete large kitchen floor . NO Ufh .
Was going to use uncoupling matting as well .
There is sliding patio door , don’t know how much direct sunlight comes in and for how long I’ll just have to pass on this advice to the customer and let them make their own mind up maybe they can install automatic blinds.

 

[hmtiling]

My preferred 2 part is weber set.plus and weber ad250. Standard setting and not the worst for trowelling and cleaning

 

[Old Mod]

My preferred 2 part is weber set.plus and weber ad250. Standard setting and not the worst for trowelling and cleaning

You’re so fickle H! 😀

 

[hmtiling]

You’re so fickle H! 😀

I actually forgot about isomat megarapid. That would be first choice.
Weber 2 part has been my automatic answer to this for years and it's early 😉

 

[Just Rizzle]

with out any hesitation i would use tile masters ultimate probably the best addy on the market. just got in a pallet yesterday for 150 mtrs of porcelain doing in a weeks time. have used on quartz several times noproblems

 

[hmtiling]

with out any hesitation i would use tile masters ultimate probably the best addy on the market. just got in a pallet yesterday for 150 mtrs of porcelain doing in a weeks time. have used on quartz several times noproblems

It's not suitable and, in my opinion one of the worst s2's I've ever used

 

[Just Rizzle]

are you getting them from a local firm or from the net since gulf stone went bust theirs a lot of cheap poor quality quartz on the market. the poorer the quality the harder to stick down what ever addy you use.

 

[One Day]

It's not suitable and, in my opinion one of the worst s2's I've ever used

As an S2 it's not as deformable (flexible, bendy) as some like BAL fastflex or Mapei S2 but in my experience it bites into substrates like metal, fibreglass and resin like nothing else (aside from Fastflex and Mapei S2) so in that regard I think it's a brilliant adhesive at a very good price point.
Remember - S2 isn't even a proper classification, more of an optional extra.
Anyone can make bendy adhesive - the bite and adhesion onto difficult substrates isn't so easy.

 

[hmtiling]

are you getting them from a local firm or from the net since gulf stone went bust theirs a lot of cheap poor quality quartz on the market. the poorer the quality the harder to stick down what ever addy you use.

I find it same as sticking any tiles down. The problem is with water content of adhesive. Well, that and ufh and sunlight.
Apart from that it's fantastic

 

[hmtiling]

As an S2 it's not as deformable (flexible, bendy) as some like BAL fastflex or Mapei S2 but in my experience it bites into substrates like metal, fibreglass and resin like nothing else (aside from Fastflex and Mapei S2) so in that regard I think it's a brilliant adhesive at a very good price point.
Remember - S2 isn't even a proper classification, more of an optional extra.
Anyone can make bendy adhesive - the bite and adhesion onto difficult substrates isn't so easy.

How many single part s2's have you removed from said substrates then. Just so we have a decent field of example

 

[One Day]

How many single part s2's have you removed from said substrates then. Just so we have a decent field of example

I did a test just this week on Porcelanosa's air slate, (didn't like the supplied epoxy grout for fixing) along with some steel sheet and the Ultimate had the best bond on both.
Not as flexible but definitely keyed into each better.
As for fibreglass, I only used it once on a pond siding/waterfall feature but again, the bond was brilliant.
I think I'd prefer fastflex on a timber floor because I know it deforms well though.

Why do you say not suitable and what's your experience?

 

[One Day]

How many single part s2's have you removed from said substrates then. Just so we have a decent field of example

Just realised i didn't answer the question!
Only 3 - TM ultimate / BAL fastflex and Mapei S2 ultraflex

 

[hmtiling]

Only 3 - TM ultimate / BAL fastflex and Mapei S2 ultraflex[/QUOTE]
You've used those 3 on which substrates? And have you had need to remove any tiles or just guessing at bond strength and adhesion?

 

[hmtiling]

I did a test just this week on Porcelanosa's air slate, (didn't like the supplied epoxy grout for fixing) along with some steel sheet and the Ultimate had the best bond on both.
Not as flexible but definitely keyed into each better.
As for fibreglass, I only used it once on a pond siding/waterfall feature but again, the bond was brilliant.
I think I'd prefer fastflex on a timber floor because I know it deforms well though.

Why do you say not suitable and what's your experience?

It's just the water content. Tilemaster put a post in here a while back stating they've had many successful installations but no guarantee. Why wouldn't you use a 2 part?

 

[hmtiling]

Just to recap here @impish, you've used 3 s2's and tm's ultimate is in 3rd?😵

 

[One Day]

Just to recap here @impish, you've used 3 s2's and tm's ultimate is in 3rd?😵

Depends what you want or expect from an S2 I guess.
For me, it's problematic substrates such as fibreglass/resin on the Air slate. I know S2 to most people means bendy/flexible though, so in that regard Ultimate isn't in the lead.
I wasn't defending it's use for man-made quartz - I agree the water content would be a factor.
It's years since I fixed the stuff but I used old Fast-flex 2 part and more lately BAL PTB with no issues.

I just hooked onto the bit where you said it's one of the worst S2 you've used and tried to offer another opinion is all 🙂

So for me, I have a problematic substrate and think "S2" and Ultimate will likely be my first choice these days.
If I want the flexibility though, then it's BAL fastflex.

 

[hmtiling]

Depends what you want or expect from an S2 I guess.
For me, it's problematic substrates such as fibreglass/resin on the Air slate. I know S2 to most people means bendy/flexible though, so in that regard Ultimate isn't in the lead.
I wasn't defending it's use for man-made quartz - I agree the water content would be a factor.
It's years since I fixed the stuff but I used old Fast-flex 2 part and more lately BAL PTB with no issues.

I just hooked onto the bit where you said it's one of the worst S2 you've used and tried to offer another opinion is all 🙂

So for me, I have a problematic substrate and think "S2" and Ultimate will likely be my first choice these days.
If I want the flexibility though, then it's BAL fastflex.

I find it a terrible adhesive to use and trowel. I don't see how you can back it when you've not tried many others. I honestly think you just like being argumentative.

Depends what you want or expect from an S2 I guess.
For me, it's problematic substrates such as fibreglass/resin on the Air slate. I know S2 to most people means bendy/flexible though, so in that regard Ultimate isn't in the lead.
I wasn't defending it's use for man-made quartz - I agree the water content would be a factor.
It's years since I fixed the stuff but I used old Fast-flex 2 part and more lately BAL PTB with no issues.

I just hooked onto the bit where you said it's one of the worst S2 you've used and tried to offer another opinion is all 🙂

So for me, I have a problematic substrate and think "S2" and Ultimate will likely be my first choice these days.
If I want the flexibility though, then it's BAL fastflex.

You need to try more adhesives. Isomat megarapid would be my first choice followed by numerous others and ultimate as a last resort. I find it the most water sensitive out of all I've tried and very, very quick. I'm sure Ray loves it as he has a massive trowel 🙄

 

[Flintstone]

I’ve not used many s2s, I try and avoid the need like the plague, probably only fast flex in all forms and also ultimate, I find ultimate terrible to use! Fastflex, yes it’s like spreading rubber on but I’ve lifted floors that were tiled with fast flex and it’s nearly always been weak and crumbing so I’m not convinced of it’s longevity.

 

[Waluigi]

Isn’t Fastflex a single part now?
Not that it’s relevant. I assumed that was why Topps recommended it shouldn’t be used on Quartz as per the information sheet I posted before.

 

[hmtiling]

I’ve not used many s2s, I try and avoid the need like the plague, probably only fast flex in all forms and also ultimate, I find ultimate terrible to use! Fastflex, yes it’s like spreading rubber on but I’ve lifted floors that were tiled with fast flex and it’s nearly always been weak and crumbing so I’m not convinced of it’s longevity.

If ever needed isomat megarapid is the way forward. Nowhere near as fast as others and actually trowels nicely. Rocatex s2 is pretty good too.

 

[hmtiling]

Isn’t Fastflex a single part now?
Not that it’s relevant. I assumed that was why Topps recommended it shouldn’t be used on Quartz as per the information sheet I posted before.

They specced ad1 admix with something or other last time I enquired

 

[One Day]

I honestly think you just like being argumentative.

Touché 🙂

 

[Just Rizzle]

must admit ultimate takes a bit of getting used to but i find it an excellent adhesive and will be using it to lay a 150mtrs of 800 x 800 12mm porcelain after first leveling the floor with 80 bags tilemasters 25 kg fibre screed and i will be using my Massive trowels

 

[One Day]

...and finishing in the one day Ray?! 🙄

 

[hmtiling]

must admit ultimate takes a bit of getting used to but i find it an excellent adhesive and will be using it to lay a 150mtrs of 800 x 800 12mm porcelain after first leveling the floor with 80 bags tilemasters 25 kg fibre screed and i will be using my Massive trowels

What's the substrate Ray?

 

[Just Rizzle]

What's the substrate Ray?

why,

 

[hmtiling]

why,

The need for an s2? You don't have to tell me. I'm not the tile police luckily for some