Tiles cracking, is it the adhesive or something else?

[Tile Shop]

Exhausted all options in looking at this.

So. Plastered walls, primed, Weber set rapid, Homelux wall matting, more Weber set rapid, 300x100 Metro Matt White tiles

Just in the shower area, the tiles have very badly cracked (no the weren't crackled finish to start with 🙂).

I have aske the customer for a method statement from the tiler, which is how I got the above info. He gave us everything except the trowel size he used for both putting the matting on and the tiles. He refused to give us this as he believes that whatever he says, we'll say its wrong but that isn't the case.

I have spoken to the tile factory and they have said, that using a rapidset too thick depth, is the reason. Anyone else got any ideas?

 

[SJPurdy]

How does the factory know that the adhesive was to thick unless they have removed some tiles?
I would think it will have to be fairly thick for the curing shrinkage to cause this cracking, probably thicker than you could practically put behind wall tiles (but then I've seen allsorts in the past!). I think obviously the cracked tiles will need replacing and then you will be able to see if the fixing was incorrect.
I don't understand why the tiler wont say what notch size trowel (if any) he used, but without further evidence!!

 

[Colour Republic]

I assume the tile manufacturer puts that on the side of the boxes then?🙄

Just how thick could he have put it on anyway?

Internal corners look grouted rather than silicones, but I can't see that causing such wide spread damage.

 

[SJPurdy]

I do note on a second look at the pics that there doesn't seem to be a flexible Silicon rubber seal in the corner. There should be but I don't think that that alone will be the cause of the cracks.

 

[Tile Shop]

It was first noticed after 2 months of use. The factories technical team admitted that the had come across this problem before (not on the same tile) and in 80% of failures, adhesive thickness/shrinkage was the issue. They haven't physically seen the job and as yet the tiles haven't been taken down. They are making the assumption based on past issues.

We are going to re-supply the tiles as a goodwill gesture. So I'm hoping that the customer can get the guy back FOC to start with, rip a few off, send us images or we send one of our ASM's out to visit so we can see the wall. But at the moment, the fitter is saying point blank he won't go back unless paid because once again the fitter is always right, it has been fitted professionally, perfectly and by the book, and once again, it is the tile that is at fault and not him....

So as not to taint the tiling profession, the fitter is a plumber. Not saying thats a bad thing and he may be very good. But it is very unlikey to be a tile issue. over 2000 sq.mtrs supplied in 3 months and this is the only complaint. Although I will hold my hands up if the tile is deemed to be faulty.

My job sucks sometimes!

 

[Old Mod]

My job sucks sometimes!

Haha our job sucks ALL the time! Haha

 

[Dan]

Possibly movement in the substrate, the grout line has cracked in the corner (terrible job those would have looked lovely scribed in and a small band of Silicon) and is following the crack in the tile.

Whatever the reason the solution is the same. Needs coming off and redoing.

 

[Dave]

Rapid set has been known to craze gloss tiles but not seen cracking like that...

 

[Lee@emctiles]

my thought straight away was the corners, then have started to think there could be movement hence the cracks?

Not the best tiling ive seen TBH

 

[AliGage]

Think the answer is in the matting,,,,,

 

[White Room]

What was the substrate ???

 

[Dave]

Think the answer is in the matting,,,,,

What makes you say that , what your thoughts Ali?

 

[Just Rizzle]

had a job a few yrs ago washed the grout off using warm water and the grout started to craze.
the job was beginning of the year and the tiles were stored in our lock up onsite think the out side temp was minus 10 the job was a car auction build at black bush were that plane came down last month
the crazing was caused by not acclimatizing the tiles befor fixing and grouting

 

[Dave]

had a job a few yrs ago washed the grout off using warm water and the grout started to craze.
the job was beginning of the year and the tiles were stored in our lock up onsite think the out side temp was minus 10 the job was a car auction build at black bush were that plane came down last month
the crazing was caused by not acclimatizing the tiles befor fixing and grouting

So this would go hand in hand with the heat from rapid set as it chemically hydrates .. The thicker the bed the more heat is potential..

 

[Just Rizzle]

could be a poor quality batch of tiles and the manufacturer passing the buck
ITS THE TILERS FAULT

 

[Dan]

had a job a few yrs ago washed the grout off using warm water and the grout started to craze.
the job was beginning of the year and the tiles were stored in our lock up onsite think the out side temp was minus 10 the job was a car auction build at black bush were that plane came down last month
the crazing was caused by not acclimatizing the tiles befor fixing and grouting

So could just be really thin glaze and rubbish biscuit and perhaps temperature shock if it's only the shower area.

 

[Just Rizzle]

So this would go hand in hand with the heat from rapid set as it chemically hydrates .. The thicker the bed the more heat is potential..

good point dave
chemical hydration and poor quality glaze equals crazing
the tiles wernt made by j********* were they
seen there glaze craze when cutting

 

[AliGage]

What makes you say that , what your thoughts Ali?

To be fair I'm not 100%. But let's call it a gut feeling and 99/100 times its right.

No way it's the use of rapid adhesive. Not months after the install, and not to the extent that's in those images.

The corners are poor. Metros unscribed in the corners leaves those diamonds. If these are filled with grout rather than Silicon we effectively, through tile type have Wells or pockets.

I think there's water ingress in the corner and it's making a poorly fitted tanking membrane swell. Collection of water or a swelling in the substrate behind.

Along those lines anyway, but for cracks to run through the grout joints like That it's substrate for sure.

 

[Dave]

Porous biscuit like a lot of white biscuit tiles are , will suck the moisture from rapid set thus creating a faster set time ... One of the reasons tiles used to be soaked when fixing in sand/cement and slurry bond, stops the biscuit drawing excess moisture from bedding mortar.

A problem not associated with a slow setting adhesive.

 

[AliGage]

Pictures 3,4 & 5 look at the grout in the corner. Clear movement cracks.
It isn't crazing of the glaze. The tiles have broken right through.
It's movement for sure, and I think its certainly starting through ingress in the corner.

 

[Dan]

Surely it can't be water getting through grout again. 😉😉😀😀😀

 

[AliGage]

Surely it can't be water getting through grout again. 😉😉😀😀😀

What we need is a test!
Cardboard box, lined with newspaper, tiled in metros by a plumber

 

[Dan]

What we need is a test!
Cardboard box, lined with newspaper, tiled in metros by a plumber

That sounds like more than one grout joint to me. Or a small box maybe?

 

[Andy Allen]

Tiles could be dot and dab on the wall....hence the reason the tiler dosnt want to go into detail about his fixing method.......using rapid set that thick on a crap tile could be the root of the problem. ...

 

[AliGage]

Tiles could be dot and dab on the wall....hence the reason the tiler dosnt want to go into detail about his fixing method.......using rapid set that thick on a crap tile could be the root of the problem. ...

How do you dot and dab metros!??

 

[Dan]

One blob in the middle and then lots of swearing to get it stay flat lol

 

[Andy Allen]

How do you dot and dab metros!??

300x 100 metros.......like Dan said blob on each end one in the middle. .....perhaps he used to be a brickie .....lol

 

[AliGage]

Lol.
We'll the op hasn't been back on but all the cracking tiles appear to be in the corner from the pictures.
The more I skim over this thread I'm certain the grouted corner/water ingress is this issue. Substrate damage/movement.

 

[Andy Allen]

Maybe no one told him he'd bought crackle glazed tiles. .😉

 

[Dan]

I'm for substrate movement.

Or heat from hot showers and then cold air cooling quickly. And a thin glaze and crappy biscuit mix.

 

[John Benton]

If there is a tanking membrane then surely the substrate cannot have water ingress, possibly movement but without knowing what the background is it's difficult to say