Price Base Rate!

[Dan]

Do you think it's worth us trying to create and adhere to a base-rate for our/your work?

What I'd be hoping to acheive with this is a base-rate for each region or area or even the whole country. So hopefully we'd be able to increase this low-pricing a little?

Perhaps some of us that are working for a cheap per meter price need to refuse that work at that price? And get details of the tilers who won the job for pricing so low? I'd certainly give them a bell and a bolloxing at the least.

Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree? Perhaps some of you NEED to be pricing so low to get work to ensure you're working?!?!

 

[Dan]

A post I made some time ago: http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/10976-working-out-your-customer.html

 

[Dan]

http://www.tilersforums.com/tile-ad...um/8013-do-you-let-customer-buy-adhesive.html

 

[Dan]

I'm about to compile a list of ways I'd be making money as a tiler - and I'd be trying to not get the trowels out as often as most do.

Some of the ways that are obvious include:

1. Perhaps offering installation of electric underfloor heating - you make on the materials and the job.
2. Try to make a % on the adhesives, grout and tiles AT THE LEAST. Personally my customers didn't get a discount - they paid the list price - I made ALL the profit between that and trade - and then some (As I sold the shop the underfloor heating in most cases too)
3. Never leave the spare tiles with the customer - take them with you - label them - stick them in the garage - leave the customer with 10 cards randomly placed around the room (behind radiators and things) and tell them they're there - though give them some too - when they have problems they'll call you! Even if it's a tile replacement due to a chip - you may find going there will get you more work elsewhere in the home - or from their friends - or as the van has now been in the street on two occasions the neighbours may start to like you too
4. My list goes on - I would have a very unique (or I'd think it was) setup and I think that's key - DON'T follow the 'trend' and do your own thing.

 

[Spud]

Do you think it's worth us trying to create and adhere to a base-rate for our/your work?

What I'd be hoping to acheive with this is a base-rate for each region or area or even the whole country. So hopefully we'd be able to increase this low-pricing a little?

Perhaps some of us that are working for a cheap per meter price need to refuse that work at that price? And get details of the tilers who won the job for pricing so low? I'd certainly give them a bell and a bolloxing at the least.

Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree? Perhaps some of you NEED to be pricing so low to get work to ensure you're working?!?!

totally against price fixing leave it to the free market it will sort out the wood from the trees

 

[theyomper]

I fail to see how you can possibly try and fix prices. The main problem that I see is when you are competing against the part timers, who as another thread suggests......have no insurance, pay no tax and ask for cash in hand!
BTW haven't supermarkets in the past tried to fix prices!!

 

[davy_G]

This interests me. There is a great difference in prices tilers charge on this board. Alot of it is area dependant. I would get laughed at trying to charge £40 a m2 in Belfast, yet its common in Southern England to get that and more. I can make money at £15 a m2 yet its not where i want to be but it keeps me working and recommended by customers. Every other trade is suffering here and when im in my tile shops they are constantly saying their other tilers are regularly phoning looking for work.
How can prices be fixed? Unless everyone in an area agrees is it a waste of time trying? And what would you do if your diary was empty and the rent was due?

I like an area minimum price in theory but i struggle with the details.

 

[Daz]

Nice idea, but totally unworkable.

When I first started I priced a few jobs low to ensure that I was earning.

As my workload increased I priced more in line with a day rate and how long it would take me.

My speed is significantly better than 6 months ago and I still price against a day rate and how long I estimate it will take me, (Less days so less cost to my customers).

When I get as fast as Sir Ramic, Deanotile and many of the hardcore guys I will, un-doubtedly, price per square metre as I know that I will be price aggressive but able to earn good money.

I'm always going to look for a competitive advantage over the other tilers in my area, it's business!!

Anyway, the last thing we need is "Of-tile" regulating our business, what with multiple government agencies trying to examine our earnings already!!

 

[cornish_crofter]

I tend to get the jobs on providing the whole package as opposed to just a base rate.

Sometimes I can see my way to doing a whole wall in hours, whereas to do a small area can take much longer if there are boxed in features and loads of cutting.

Hence I tend to look at the whole job and cost it on a job by job basis.

I know I see talk of £ per M sqd here but my jobs don't always work out like that.

 

[White Room]

As with cornish every job should be priced on it's merits, A 1000m2 would'nt be priced £30m2 for ceramic, where as on domestic you may get that kind of money.

Depending on your tile

 

[brian c]

not everyone would keep to price fixing anyway,so imo its a waste of time.sorry to be so negative as im not normally like that but its how i feel about this suggestion.

 

[a1tiler]

I`m with birthday boy :yes:

 

[dbstiling]

Price fixing would never work as there is always somebody who would undercut you. I look at each job separately and then price accordingly. I never give prices over the phone but offer a free estimate so that I can see exactly what needs to be done. Customers can sometimes forget important pieces of information in a phone call.

 

[doug boardley]

price fixing not for me! there are god and bad, fast and slow tiler, you set your own price depending on what category you fall into. If I was a customer I'd willingly pay more for a slow, good tiler than a bad, fast one! Obviously we all aspire to be good fast tilers!Most of my work is site based so I tend to give an "all in" price,that way I and site agent know what the cost will be.

 

[charlie1]

If I have to charge £5 pm/2 to put food in my daughters mouth I will...And i would NEVER attempt to tell a fellow tiler what he or she should charge. That is up to them.

We cannot control this kind of thing its impossabile.

 

[doug boardley]

there's a base limit tho' charlie where it will cost you more to go to work, and it'd be better to do something else, on a personal note I'd do any job to provide for my two little lads

 

[Perry]

a second hand car that has done 10 miles in good condition would sell for more than one in bad condition that had done 100000 miles but you could always have a price guide but you can never tell anyone what they can charge 😛ete

 

[david campbell]

:beatdeadhorse5:this would never work! usually i would charge say £20-£25 m2 depending on size,akwardness etc... yet lately i have priced several larger jobs at say £18m2 because i know i would still make a decent wage from it only to be phoned by the client and told they have received a quote of almost near have of mine,either people are working for next to nothing or customers are totally brass necking it!! (1/2 of £18m2) you dont need to be einstien to work out there aint much to be made after material costs

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

its a free market and it should stay that way :hurray: long live freedom !!!! thats wot are fathers died for

 

[White Room]

Big Brother is watching:20:

 

[diamondtiling]

As with cornish every job should be priced on it's merits, A 1000m2 would'nt be priced £30m2 for ceramic, where as on domestic you may get that kind of money.

Depending on your tile

I completey disagree with these comments, 5 years ago I was doing L.A.Fitness, Fitness First and Total fitness clubs, the minimum was 30 per mtr, falls in shower areas were day rate, mosaics were £13 per linear mtr, each club took 2 months, The overall meterage was big but they used me because of the end finish, I reject this argument about having to pay the rent, everytime you sell yourself low then you can only ever go lower, I would rather have fewer jobs on my books if they were all money minded, there are companies out there that check up on your previous work and award their projects on the basis that it will be done properly to the BS standards, they want to hand a project over to the customer knowing that it has been carried out to the highest possible degree. I have worked in Ireland, Guernsey, the Isle of Man, Scotland, Spain, I have been from Brighton to Aberdeen and that work comes from recommendation, Sell yourself on the cheap..................?????????????? Stay Cheap!!!!

 

[doug boardley]

whitebeams comments make sense to me, on a big job your profit margin is gona be bigger than on a small job, hence, a bit more flexibility in the price imo

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Lads - I think the market has changed since this thread was posted in July last year.
There are pricing guides that indicate to quantity surveyors the going rate for building works and in the domestic market the customer often gets 2/3 estimates and make their choice on factors that don't always include the price.

Timeless John.

 

[doug boardley]

the concept remains the same tho' John, One that I totally disagree with tbh

 

[obobsmith]

Lads - I think the market has changed since this thread was posted in July last year.
There are pricing guides that indicate to quantity surveyors the going rate for building works and in the domestic market the customer often gets 2/3 estimates and make their choice on factors that don't always include the price.

Timeless John.

I agree price is not always the main factor. I quoted for a job last week ( domestic ) I was honest with the lady told her I was just setting up , that I was'nt the fastest but that I would do one floor for her ( four rooms in all) and If it wasn't up to spec I would not get the rest of the floors.

Having spent time talking to her and telling her how I would approach the job, she turned round to me and told me not to undercharge that she knew the going rate, she liked me and that she thought I would more than likely be getting the job.

Start monday 27m, biggest to date chuffed/terrified, walked into a second quote 5m splashback got it, both at the rates I thought no undercutting.

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

[curlycan]

As I have just started I'm using the rates explained to me at they training school. I've got 1 job for a woman I work with (my part time job) floor and kitchen splash back quoted the price for both and she was well happy as she thought it was going to be more. another job I start in January quoted them and as soon as I gave them my quote they asked when could I start. Obviousley I haven't come up against people with other quotes yet and time will tell but you have to trust your pricing and stick with it because from what i've read on other pages as long as you are good then there is work out there even if it is repairing some cowboys work.

 

[Nardini]

For what it's worth, after quite a long time working for myself - in business in reality as I was employing quite a few people as well - I long ago came to the conclusion that my accountant was right (the one and only time!) when he suggested I work it all out. By that, I used the format for creating a profit & loss chart, where I wrote down every expense - van, insurance, maintenance, fuel, tyres, oil, etc and that is only the transport line! - and looked at how much chargeable time I was actually billing out - NOT what I was capable of, but what I actually did. It takes a while and you might need a bit of help to do it properly, but you get a figure that you MUST charge out as a minimum at the end of the exercise. Once I had the calculation, I then had a figure to charge out onto which I could add my profit margin to ensure I didn't lose money. It helps bring home the "turnover is vanity, profit is sanity" statement as a reality. If you are in business at all, you need to know that you can actually stay in business or you are out of work - as well as anyone else you might be employing.

 

[Stan001]

I think it is a good idea to in some way communicate between us the base line prices (especially as surveyors etc. are stating what the rate should be – even Sarah Beeny in her house build book is quoting rates for tilers)

However, the application of it will only work half the time, I think half the customers work on price (ref those reverse auction bid for business sites where gardeners suddenly become tilers and win the job), but the other half of the customers actually look to employ a tiler for tiling, a plumber for plumbing and a chippy for their wood etc. These people’s key buy-metric is quality, finish etc. and not price – they expect to pay the ‘going rate’. This is the market I believe most of us are after.

For this half of the market I think Dan’s suggestion is good. (at least as a commonly communicated baseline for us to at least work above and below).

Also speaking bluntly, ref what others have said, we are here to pay our mortgages and feed our kids and actually make a proifit. I don’t think we help ourselves driving the prices down, other trades don’t. In the middle of the recession I still have plenty of high quotes from chippies, sparkies etc. for my property side of things. I actually assumed going back a year ago that in the recession I could get labour cheaper from the trades, surprisingly this has not turned out to be true (though I notice I can get really great deals on materials now).

 

[Nardini]

I think half the customers work on price (ref those reverse auction bid for business sites where gardeners suddenly become tilers and win the job), but the other half of the customers actually look to employ a tiler for tiling, a plumber for plumbing and a chippy for their wood etc.

Couldn't agree more, Stan. I used to work in the exhibition industry - for quite a few years, back in the Joint-Working days. It was very noticeable that after the end of JW, all sorts of other trades became interested in our industry and started giving really stupid quotes for jobs. Whereas we might have quoted a job at £20k, it was common for firms of kitchen fitters (coffin-makers as we used to call them) to come in with quotes of £8 or 9k for the same sort of job - at least, that is what they would tell the punters! We stuck to our guns over prices as I knew that we would be losing money if we didn't! Although, there were certainly some that dropped their prices to "buy work" - they are the ones that went out of business, sadly. The kitchen fitters seemed happy just keeping their men in work by taking the food out of the mouths of those of us "in the trade" and vanished again when the fitted kitchen trade picked up again, leaving out punters feeling that the exhibition contractors were ripping them off - a sad tale of ignorance (the customer) and greed (kitchen fitters), in my view. Sorry - rant over now. As you were...

 

[aejrd]

I'm about to compile a list of ways I'd be making money as a tiler - and I'd be trying to not get the trowels out as often as most do.

Some of the ways that are obvious include:

1. Perhaps offering installation of electric underfloor heating - you make on the materials and the job.
2. Try to make a % on the adhesives, grout and tiles AT THE LEAST. Personally my customers didn't get a discount - they paid the list price - I made ALL the profit between that and trade - and then some (As I sold the shop the underfloor heating in most cases too)
3. Never leave the spare tiles with the customer - take them with you - label them - stick them in the garage - leave the customer with 10 cards randomly placed around the room (behind radiators and things) and tell them they're there - though give them some too - when they have problems they'll call you! Even if it's a tile replacement due to a chip - you may find going there will get you more work elsewhere in the home - or from their friends - or as the van has now been in the street on two occasions the neighbours may start to like you too
4. My list goes on - I would have a very unique (or I'd think it was) setup and I think that's key - DON'T follow the 'trend' and do your own thing.

i once got called a thief for taking 2 spare tiles away!!...most people are going to wickes and b&q for their tiles now ,so i cant make anything on supplying them, make a little on sticky...getting less per metre now than i was 5years ago..cant refuse any work because theres far too many tilers out there now!! and i KNOW that i am not alone !...lucky to get 3days graft a week .£500 is a good week now,it used to be £1300.every time i go to price a job now they say ..well i have already had one bloke round and theres a couple to come after you!! unless its off one of the plumbers i get work from!! wish i had stuck in at school!! my son is a civil engineer ,loves going to work..and makes a fortune!!!!

 

[TT Tiling]

hi i try and let the customer buy all the tiles add grout sealer and so on ,as shops today will do a deal as they walk through the door and nom match the deal you would of got ,so let them but the lot its down to me then on a meter price or day rate ,i keep my day rate high so they think no way do it on the meter price ,but then i make the same if not more doing it that way as i get the job done faster ,but then when the jobs done the customer is happy ,they forgot about your day rate they didnt like and get the cheque book out pay you ,im happy they happy ,happy days , but it is getting tougher down here all the time due to the diy-ers , and like you said everyone is out for themselfs ,we all have bills and mouths to feed ,,