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Hi. I'm relatively new to tile, and have begun offering it as a service alongside my existing skills in property maintenance/repair and general construction etc. I am not a "time served" or particularly experienced tiler, but I have been on a week long course to make sure I understand the basics of prep, setting out, laying tile, grouting etc...
I have done work for the same property developers for many years, and they have always struggled in finding a good, reliable tiler. I pay a great deal of attention to all the work I do and am a bit of a perfectionist... so last year they asked if I could do the tile on one of their new builds... they were paying £25 per square meter previously, for walls and floors using mainly ceramic, but some porcelain... but all decent sized tiles, in stack-bond layout, with an average amount of trim work. They provided all materials so the meterage was purely labour. I thought that sounded reasonable so agreed. I spent many more hours than I would have liked, ensuring I was producing my highest standard of work... they were very impressed with this work and offered me the role of tiler on their future projects.
Fast forward to now, and we negotiated on price a little. The new rate is now £30 per meter, labour only. Based on the types of tiles used last year, and the layout/spec etc of their last properties, I thought this was a very good rate and was happy that I could now earn good money for all my effort. As they are new builds, the end-user (their buyers) ultimately choose their tiles and layouts... and here lies the issue... the actual specs for the tile doesn't come through until a couple of weeks before the job begins. (Long after the rates were agreed).
The guys I'm working for (the developers) have already agreed to a higher price per meter than they were paying previously... this higher price, as far as I'm concerned, is justified by the quality of work I produce, and wasn't agreed to account for any extras. The first house, which I'm about to begin, has specified brick bond everywhere (walls and floors), a mosaic feature down the centre of their shower wall, has a lot of porcelain (obviously harder to cut compared to the mostly ceramic tiles used last year), wants two different tiles in the same room (one for the shower, and another for the rest of the room, but in brick bond and with nothing to separate the two on one of the walls due to being a walk-in shower - two different grouts aswell), and the bathrooms this time round are a lot more awkward compared to their last site, with small stud divider walls to tile (and trim), sloped ceilings, diagonal walls meaning angled cuts for floors too etc.
I've already raised my concerns regarding how long it will now take, and also therefore the mosaics (in particular) possibly being charged as an extra... but I've also now been told that one of the other plots, has some herringbone tile to do, using 100mm x 200mm tiles... quite a bit smaller than the tiles I was expecting to use on these jobs.
The developers have offered an extra £10 per meter (so £40 per meter) for the herringbone layout... but I've never actually done herringbone and from what I've seen and heard, it should be more like double the usual rate due to the extra work involved...?
Now... I don't really want to start "another" discussion on what the going rates are per meter around the country etc... but I would really appreciate some advice on how I should approach this with the developers I'm working for...? I don't want to come across as greedy by asking for even more money, when they have already agreed to increase my meter price (which as each house has 3 bathrooms, means it's actually quite a substantial overall increase in price) but at the same time... if I don't charge more for certain things, I'll struggle to make good money whilst maintaining my high standards. Would you suggest agreeing a new meterage rate for each style (mosaic/herringbone/brick bond and stack bond etc) or try to establish that meterage should only apply to the flat areas, and that areas with lots of trim work, awkward cuts, and specialist layouts like herringbone or mosaic features should be extras, charged either by the hour or on day rate?...
An approach I've thought of putting to them is to allow me to quote for each house once they have the full specs off their buyers... meaning I can take into consideration all aspects of the job instead of being tied to a meterage rate... but as the specs don't come in until shortly before the job starts, it doesn't leave much time to quote and resolve any differences of opinion on the price I give (I would negotiate if needed to keep the work, as I am keen to keep hold of all their tile work).
Sorry for the length of the post, and I look forward to reading your thoughts on this.
Cheers, Tom.
I have done work for the same property developers for many years, and they have always struggled in finding a good, reliable tiler. I pay a great deal of attention to all the work I do and am a bit of a perfectionist... so last year they asked if I could do the tile on one of their new builds... they were paying £25 per square meter previously, for walls and floors using mainly ceramic, but some porcelain... but all decent sized tiles, in stack-bond layout, with an average amount of trim work. They provided all materials so the meterage was purely labour. I thought that sounded reasonable so agreed. I spent many more hours than I would have liked, ensuring I was producing my highest standard of work... they were very impressed with this work and offered me the role of tiler on their future projects.
Fast forward to now, and we negotiated on price a little. The new rate is now £30 per meter, labour only. Based on the types of tiles used last year, and the layout/spec etc of their last properties, I thought this was a very good rate and was happy that I could now earn good money for all my effort. As they are new builds, the end-user (their buyers) ultimately choose their tiles and layouts... and here lies the issue... the actual specs for the tile doesn't come through until a couple of weeks before the job begins. (Long after the rates were agreed).
The guys I'm working for (the developers) have already agreed to a higher price per meter than they were paying previously... this higher price, as far as I'm concerned, is justified by the quality of work I produce, and wasn't agreed to account for any extras. The first house, which I'm about to begin, has specified brick bond everywhere (walls and floors), a mosaic feature down the centre of their shower wall, has a lot of porcelain (obviously harder to cut compared to the mostly ceramic tiles used last year), wants two different tiles in the same room (one for the shower, and another for the rest of the room, but in brick bond and with nothing to separate the two on one of the walls due to being a walk-in shower - two different grouts aswell), and the bathrooms this time round are a lot more awkward compared to their last site, with small stud divider walls to tile (and trim), sloped ceilings, diagonal walls meaning angled cuts for floors too etc.
I've already raised my concerns regarding how long it will now take, and also therefore the mosaics (in particular) possibly being charged as an extra... but I've also now been told that one of the other plots, has some herringbone tile to do, using 100mm x 200mm tiles... quite a bit smaller than the tiles I was expecting to use on these jobs.
The developers have offered an extra £10 per meter (so £40 per meter) for the herringbone layout... but I've never actually done herringbone and from what I've seen and heard, it should be more like double the usual rate due to the extra work involved...?
Now... I don't really want to start "another" discussion on what the going rates are per meter around the country etc... but I would really appreciate some advice on how I should approach this with the developers I'm working for...? I don't want to come across as greedy by asking for even more money, when they have already agreed to increase my meter price (which as each house has 3 bathrooms, means it's actually quite a substantial overall increase in price) but at the same time... if I don't charge more for certain things, I'll struggle to make good money whilst maintaining my high standards. Would you suggest agreeing a new meterage rate for each style (mosaic/herringbone/brick bond and stack bond etc) or try to establish that meterage should only apply to the flat areas, and that areas with lots of trim work, awkward cuts, and specialist layouts like herringbone or mosaic features should be extras, charged either by the hour or on day rate?...
An approach I've thought of putting to them is to allow me to quote for each house once they have the full specs off their buyers... meaning I can take into consideration all aspects of the job instead of being tied to a meterage rate... but as the specs don't come in until shortly before the job starts, it doesn't leave much time to quote and resolve any differences of opinion on the price I give (I would negotiate if needed to keep the work, as I am keen to keep hold of all their tile work).
Sorry for the length of the post, and I look forward to reading your thoughts on this.
Cheers, Tom.