Resin Backed Limestone - Failure

[Deleted member 18697]

We fitted a limestone floor a while ago, the tiles had a resin backing on them. We took advice from an adhesive company and they recommended their S1 adhesive. The floor has now extensively debonded. The adhesive has failed to bond to the backs of the tiles. Has anyone else had an experience like this? The base was a screed with under floor heating and we fitted ditra matting. The tiles were buttered before bedding. Any thoughts on this, gratefully received.

 

[White Room]

Did the supplier know about ufh with the resin when they advised....

 

[Chalker]

Thought resin was no good with ufh?

 

[One Day]

Yup it's probably the combo of heat and resin.
Resin alone would likely be ok but heating the resin releases all sorts of chemical solventy nasties which break the adhesive bond.
That's my guess....

 

[Spud]

What have the adhesive company said? There are a few threads on here about failures with resin backed stone and I think you should contact the supplier and stone federation for some guidance as I believe the stone federation recommend that the resin is removed prior to fixing but since there are so many different types of products out there it can be a minefield
A lot of stone companies resin back their slabs to stop damage while being transported but recommend it removed prior to fixing , some use it to laminate the stone for structural strength and it can't be removed most of these types of products recommend fixing with s2 classified adhesives

 

[Deleted member 18697]

The supplier knew about the under floor heating. I left 2 messages asking what their recommendation for fixing would be and got no reply! This in hindsight is quite telling. I therefore contacted the adhesive company who recommended their s1 adhesive (in writing). Their were no instructions from the supplier to remove the backing. This would have been a huge task as it was well stuck on and there was over 100m of stone. The adhesive company are due to come out and have a look and we will see how they play it.

 

[The D]

The TTA put something out about this a while back may be worth contacting them in the meantime.

 

[jonnyc]

The TTA put something out about this a while back may be worth contacting them in the meantime.

Can one just contact tta direct.this issue needs addressing for anyone who fixes limestone/marble with this resin backing.to me it seems that not all Resin backing is the same and potentially a real minefield for a fixer who is not a chemist by profession

 

[jonnyc]

What have the adhesive company said? There are a few threads on here about failures with resin backed stone and I think you should contact the supplier and stone federation for some guidance as I believe the stone federation recommend that the resin is removed prior to fixing but since there are so many different types of products out there it can be a minefield
A lot of stone companies resin back their slabs to stop damage while being transported but recommend it removed prior to fixing , some use it to laminate the stone for structural strength and it can't be removed most of these types of products recommend fixing with s2 classified adhesives

I have never heard on any stone /marble supplier recommending that resin backingb should be removed prior to fixing

 

[J Sid]

Haven't done any for a while, but when i did i always abraded the backs with grinder or sanding and then buttered the back with adhesive and admix, rightly or wrongly, but never had any come backs.

 

[The D]

Can one just contact tta direct.this issue needs addressing for anyone who fixes limestone/marble with this resin backing.to me it seems that not all Resin backing is the same and potentially a real minefield for a fixer who is not a chemist by profession

Lol it's not a minefield for me I'm just a tiler ;0)

 

[Spud]

You don't have to be a member of the TTA to call them for technical advice I am not sure how it works these days as there have been a few changes recently but you can just call them and they will help but I think where stone is concerned the stone federation would be who I would call

 

[Deleted member 18697]

The TTA's view on this is that because there is no British Standard on the fixing of resin backed tiles it is down to the supplier to provide a fixing method. If they are unable to do this then the tiles are not fit for purpose.
The supplier did not provide a fixing method even when asked but the adhesive company did. Therefore, I believe I am covered from a legal point of view.

 

[jonnyc]

The TTA's view on this is that because there is no British Standard on the fixing of resin backed tiles it is down to the supplier to provide a fixing method. If they are unable to do this then the tiles are not fit for purpose.
The supplier did not provide a fixing method even when asked but the adhesive company did. Therefore, I believe I am covered from a legal point of view.

Dave did you send email to stone supplier and get any sort of reply or speak to them.
i forgot to ask when we spoke what name of stone was

 

[Deleted member 18697]

Not since it happened and at the time I definitely asked twice by phone but no one came back to me. I thought I had sent them an email but I can't find one!

 

[jonnyc]

Will call when I get back.bit early for you!
im just going out to dig some lugworm.
bass being caught now.
sealing floor can wait

 

[Deleted member 18697]

Been up since 5.15 mate!

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

here is the TTA report on mesh backed tiles should help you understand the problems with this View attachment TTA 1.pdfView attachment TTA 2.pdf

 

[Deleted member 18697]

Thanks Ray, I had seen this and am happy that I followed these guidelines it is just a shame that I was given the wrong advice as it was a beautiful book matched limestone floor and the client will now have to move out while it is put right!

 

[jonnyc]

Been up since 5.15 mate!

Been up doing what at 5.15am!!
only just got back because the weight of bass I caught made me overloaded and had to eat before I left !!!!
norfolk coast great but I couldn't find a single pub including the one I was staying in that had sky sports and managed to turn it on for our dismal failure in fotball that had rugby on!
Dave,you asked the right question of stone supplier but they never responded and adhesive supplier recommended an adhesive for resin backed stone.
hindsight okay but would seem that there must be varied versions of resin backed stone not just from one country !
How are we to know that.
i feel right now that we stone fixers should a failure occur , are being hung out even though we are asking the right questions