Weber Set Trade S1, real problems!

[dynamictiling]

I am reading this post with interest. Looking at the pictures it does look as if you have used enough adhesive but the adhesive has compressed and hasn't taken a bond to the ply.

Personally I would use the same batch of plywood. Do a control test, I.e use the same weber adhesive and fix one tile to the ply. Then use another adhesive (bal, mapei etc) and fix another tile to the ply. Make sure you use the same ply that is on the floor as that may prove the ply is at fault, if however one of the other adhesives take to the ply then the weber adhesive is at fault.

Hope you can get this sorted out.

 

[Mikephillips85]

I had had the same thing happen a couple of weeks ago on a small bathroom floor using Webber trade adhesive at the time I didn't think it was the adhesive just thought the ply was dusty I tiled it again using mapei had no problems after seeing this post I'm pretty sure it was a adhesive problem

 

[Billski]

Cheers Mike, good to hear I'm not the only one.

 

[Old Mod]

Is it a coincidence or something else, but that adhesive is not listed on their current website dated copywrite 2017.
And if @impish says it's been around for 18months, shouldn't it be there?
It is advertised on Ctd's site tho.

 

[Italy]

Ouch.....

 

[Dumbo]

Is it a coincidence or something else, but that adhesive is not listed on their current website dated copywrite 2017.
And if @impish says it's been around for 18months, shouldn't it be there?
It is advertised on Ctd's site tho.

Do you think this is ctd only adhesive at a cost that they can make plenty of money out of it .

 

[J Sid]

Is it a coincidence or something else, but that adhesive is not listed on their current website dated copywrite 2017.
And if @impish says it's been around for 18months, shouldn't it be there?
It is advertised on Ctd's site tho.

My CTD sell a lot of it. apparently.... not to me, cheap is not always best

 

[Billski]

After waiting 7 days to even get anyone to look at this floor and then another 4 days I get this ridiculous email from Weber! I told them I'd used WBP hard wood ply which has Mahogany in it. They're telling me not to use ply with Mahogany in it! Now can anyone tell me of a hard wood WBP ply which doesn't have Mahogany in it??
My conclusion is if you ever have a problem with Weber then tough luck as they'll do nothing to help. AVOID THEIR PRODUCTS!!

Observations:
The tiles had been fixed to a high standard with a full bed of adhesive. The ply that had been used as a substrate was described to us as being a mahogany hard wood. The tile adhesive is our weberset rapid trade S1 product.

The Mahogany ply is also known as “luaun” and is not a suitable substrate for tiling. The veneered mahogany surface is glued to the board using water soluble glue which softens when exposed to moisture from the tile adhesive.

We understand that another manufacturer’s product was used to bond tiles to the ply and this worked with no failure.

Recommendations:
We would recommend that the ply is removed and an 18mm WBP ply used to replace it. WBP ply is water and boil proof and should be primed on the back and edges. The boards should be screw fixed to a joist or a noggin at 300mm centres. Tiles can then be re fixed with a solid bed method as used previously.

 

[Tile Shop]

Now, either I'm getting my wires crossed (high possibility) but I've been looking through various plywoods, google searches for WBP, hardwood, mahogany, all in 15-18mm......... the only mahogany I could find was interior grade decorative and NOT classed as WBP.

most I looked at would have been suitable were Eucalyptus, Gaboon, Teak.

Whats the exact wording on the back of the bag and do you have a link for the plywood you have used?

 

[Billski]

Firstly WBP doesn't actually exist any more. And I'm guessing it's Mahogany as it looks like Mahogany to me. All it says about structurel hard wood ply is that is is made from tropical hard wood, which Mahogany is.

 

[Billski]

Back of the bag just says to use WBP grade ply.
I've also used the same ply from the same company for years with no problems.

 

[Blunt Tool]

Back of the bag just says to use WBP grade ply.
I've also used the same ply from the same company for years with no problems.

I was told a long time ago if you wanted to check if you had good plywood or cheap plywood to take a sharp chisel to a small offcut and separate it apart if 1st layer going straight then next layer should be at 45 degrees, then next layer will be at 90 degrees, then next layer should be at 135 degrees etc etc and if you have cheap plywood it will be one layer straight then next layer 90 degrees then next layer back to straight. Because it is easier to manufacture and a lot less waste that's why it's cheaper but a lot less strength and more likely to delaminate and have problems with.

 

[Kyle Knowles]

Is it a coincidence or something else, but that adhesive is not listed on their current website dated copywrite 2017.
And if @impish says it's been around for 18months, shouldn't it be there?
It is advertised on Ctd's site tho.

It's a ctd exclusive weber gave it ctd coz better bathrooms was knocking grey spf out cheaper than ctd so they had to get sumat to match it .. That's what I've bin told form a little birdie

 

[One Day]

This sounds like another case of industry laziness / slowness.
It's been years since ply standards changed and yet adhesive manufacturers (and TTA???) still are not making clear what we should be using their products on other than saying like stuck record "WBP ply".

Billski - sounds like you need to take your ply supplier to task on this?

I tried last year to get certificates from my timber supplier for 40 sheets of wbp ply needed for a large floor overlay. They couldn't get them (or wouldn't) so I ended up using Hardibacker - and everyone knows how much I hate the stuff!

 

[Bathfix Bob]

So what have we all learned here....

 

[One Day]

So what have we all learned here....

Me? 3 things:
I would say don't use ply.
If you must - get it itemised as WBP on your invoice from the supplier.
.....and don't use Weber trade S1 on ply.

 

[Kyle Knowles]

I tiled over ply for over a decade with my dad and never had any issues but these days I use hardi just coz I know better/more then I did then and also I wasn't making the descsions

 

[Old Mod]

So what have we all learned here....

😉

 

[Mikephillips85]

Always use a good quality adhesive that you trust

 

[Just Rizzle]

sorry to here your predicament but i haven't used ply to tile ceramics on in 15 years. there is products out there much better suited than old ply to tile ceramics on.

 

[On one]

After waiting 7 days to even get anyone to look at this floor and then another 4 days I get this ridiculous email from Weber! I told them I'd used WBP hard wood ply which has Mahogany in it. They're telling me not to use ply with Mahogany in it! Now can anyone tell me of a hard wood WBP ply which doesn't have Mahogany in it??
My conclusion is if you ever have a problem with Weber then tough luck as they'll do nothing to help. AVOID THEIR PRODUCTS!!

Observations:
The tiles had been fixed to a high standard with a full bed of adhesive. The ply that had been used as a substrate was described to us as being a mahogany hard wood. The tile adhesive is our weberset rapid trade S1 product.

The Mahogany ply is also known as “luaun” and is not a suitable substrate for tiling. The veneered mahogany surface is glued to the board using water soluble glue which softens when exposed to moisture from the tile adhesive.

We understand that another manufacturer’s product was used to bond tiles to the ply and this worked with no failure.

Recommendations:
We would recommend that the ply is removed and an 18mm WBP ply used to replace it. WBP ply is water and boil proof and should be primed on the back and edges. The boards should be screw fixed to a joist or a noggin at 300mm centres. Tiles can then be re fixed with a solid bed method as used previously.

So I'm reading this as....
You've told Weber that you have used 18mm WBP plywood,
Weber have told you that your WBP plywood is glued together with water soluble glue.......so what the hell does W stand for in WBP?????
Then Weber tell you to use WBP plywood again?????
Stinks of someone that hasn't got a clue of what there talking about, and just opens their mouth and a load of ***** comes out

 

[Blunt Tool]

So I'm reading this as....
You've told Weber that you have used 18mm WBP plywood,
Weber have told you that your WBP plywood is glued together with water soluble glue.......so what the hell does W stand for in WBP?????
Then Weber tell you to use WBP plywood again?????
Stinks of someone that hasn't got a clue of what there talking about, and just opens their mouth and a load of ***** comes out

Isn't the W for weather not water?

 

[On one]

Just googled thishttp://www.contractflooringjournal.co.uk/blog/plywood-there-is-no-such-thing-as-wbp
I actually thought the W meant waterproof
Never mind what it means. We now have better alternatives but, WBP plywood has been used for decades.......so does that mean that every job we have done in the past has ended up in the same predicament as this failure, I think not.

 

[Flintstone]

Really, who screws ply right through to the joists or noggins when over boarding ?

 

[Billski]

I do if I can. Putting a screw into old floor boards never gives a good fix. Always beeter to pick up the joist below if you can.

 

[Blunt Tool]

I do if I can. Putting a screw into old floor boards never gives a good fix. Always beeter to pick up the joist below if you can.

And a pipe or a wire 🙂

 

[Billski]

Just googled thishttp://www.contractflooringjournal.co.uk/blog/plywood-there-is-no-such-thing-as-wbp
I actually thought the W meant waterproof
Never mind what it means. We now have better alternatives but, WBP plywood has been used for decades.......so does that mean that every job we have done in the past has ended up in the same predicament as this failure, I think not.

Exactly. I've used the same ply for years with no problems. The only thing I used for the first time was the Weber set S1 adhesive..never again.

 

[Billski]

And a pipe or a wire 🙂

You take a few up first to check for that.

 

[Blunt Tool]

Exactly. I've used the same ply for years with no problems. The only thing I used for the first time was the Weber set S1 adhesive..never again.

You take a few up first to check for that.

Think you should go back to shop you bought it from and speak to manager,try and come to a comprise say 50 50 to cost of rectifying and never use it again. If manager not willing to then ask when the next time the area manager will be around or ask for his contact details and see what he says?

 

[One Day]

Few links may be of interest: http://www.cfa.org.uk/userfiles/files/Guidance Note - Plywood - v1 - July 2013.pdf

https://www.TilersForums.co.uk/wp-c...rnal-Ceramic-Tiling-Technical-Publication.pdf

I think you have a case against Weber. Contact your area rep and talk it through. Casually mention that it's a failure now being discussed openly on the uk's largest tile forum. Bad press - not good for business!

I can't link to the TTA technical paper - just google "tile association ply warning"
It's the first result...

 

[Billski]

I did contact the tile shop manager who then put me on to the sales rep, who then came round with another guy to inspect it, who then set me this silly report about replacing the WBP ply with more WBP ply. Don't seem to be getting anywhere.
Monday morning I will try and get a spec sheet for the ply from my builders merchants and then email that over to Weber.
It would seem Weber don't know what they're talking about with the ply.