Porcelain Equivalent Of Black Quartz Stardust

[p4ulo]

Nah, get the vinyl up. Maybe he doesn't fancy doing it cos its a bit more work, could you offer to do it?
If its a 1st floor in an Edwardian house they'll be stuck onto ply on-top of the original floor-boards perhaps?
Best approach is to get right back to the floor boards and start again, gluing and screwing the Hardibacker boards down to the floor boards.

 

[berilac]

its stuck and it won't come off without causing wear and tear to the ply and he reckons we would have to lift the whole kitchen out to replace it, am thinking its maybe simpler if I just add Vinyl to it for now and later get the whole thing done,

 

[Mark Preston]

i was advised to go with bal ptb and ad1 mix for the stardust... Certainly should be a two part, as I understand it two much moisture can bow the quartz tile

 

[p4ulo]

its stuck and it won't come off without causing wear and tear to the ply and he reckons we would have to lift the whole kitchen out to replace it, am thinking its maybe simpler if I just add Vinyl to it for now and later get the whole thing done,

Sounds like a bit of a faff to me, I thought it was a simple bathroom refit, didn't know there was a Kitchen involved too?
Dunno what to suggest, depends how much you want the job done, and whether the kitchen is staying forever??

 

[berilac]

lol , I am getting the kitchen and bathroom retiled with the same stardust tiles, I have the same problem in them though so its consistent,

I would have gone ahead with it but not sure if tiling over the vinyl is a good idea,

Sounds like a bit of a faff to me, I thought it was a simple bathroom refit, didn't know there was a Kitchen involved too?
Dunno what to suggest, depends how much you want the job done, and whether the kitchen is staying forever??

 

[p4ulo]

I personally think you should cut around the kitchen units, remove vinyl and whatever ply comes up with it, same in the bathroom, and when you fit the Hardieboard you can self-level the floor to bring it up flat before tiling.
If it isn't going to be done this way, I wouldn't do it, I guess the Hardiebacker could go down over the vinyl, but in effect its ONLY the screws holding it down that way, adhesive underneath not doing much. If he insists on going this way, as long as he compensated with extra screws with adhesive it might hold....but it'd be a heck of a step-up from other rooms.....

 

[Old Mod]

The adhesive used with Hardi isn't used to hold it down.
It's purely used to take out unevenness of the substrate.
The screws are used to secure it to the floor.

 

[p4ulo]

The adhesive used with Hardi isn't used to hold it down.
It's purely used to take out unevenness of the substrate.
The screws are used to secure it to the floor.

Oh right, I wasn't aware of that, trust me when I've cut through some onto floorboards for a plumber to access something its stuck fast!
So it could be ok then (apart from the height)

 

[Old Mod]

Oh right, I wasn't aware of that, trust me when I've cut through some onto floorboards for a plumber to access something its stuck fast!
So it could be ok then (apart from the height)

Well if u were over boarding with ply for example, would u still remove the vinyl flooring?

 

[p4ulo]

Well if u were over boarding with ply for example, would u still remove the vinyl flooring?

Yeah I would, but its a height issue really more than anything else? And I'd probs whack down some "No More Nails" between the two as well.

 

[Old Mod]

Yeah I would, but its a height issue really more than anything else? And I'd probs whack down some "No More Nails" between the two as well.

But if you're screwing thro the ply into the boards below, why would u remove the vinyl?
Is that not a waste of effort?

 

[p4ulo]

But if you're screwing thro the ply into the boards below, why would u remove the vinyl?
Is that not a waste of effort?

Yeah probably, but I work a particular way, I like to be back to ground level, how do you know the floor is sound underneath said vinyl? plus, if heights of floors is an issue, why not get down as low as you can??

 

[Old Mod]

Yeah probably, but I work a particular way, I like to be back to ground level, how do you know the floor is sound underneath said vinyl? plus, if heights of floors is an issue, why not get down as low as you can??

Well I'm not gonna get into a big debate P4ulo because it doesn't need it, but if u can't tell the state of the sub floor thro vinyl tiles, then yes u need to take it all up.
That's kool tho, the fact that u feel unable to gaurantee it without taking it back further is all credit to you! Truly.
If more people knew their limits, there would be less failures.

 

[berilac]

There are 3 concerns I have with this,
1. Height : at the moment the kitchen/bathroom with Vinyl is aligned with rest of the rooms height wise,
If I tile this over the vinyl it will add a height of approx 16mm (6mm for the hardboard + approx 10mm for the stardust tiles),
2. Future work : For future renovations, more layers to remove i.e. the tiles, hardwood, vinyl , ply..etc
3. Weight : I was thinking was of weight but that should hold through and may not be a big deal.

 

[p4ulo]

Sounds like you want the vinyl up mate. I wonder what its glued down with, maybe there is a thinner type product you could use to break it down? Not sure how you'd attack it tbh, or maybe a heat gun?

 

[AliGage]

Hi @berilac welcome to the forum.

Is your floor deflection free with the vinyl down?

 

[berilac]

I am not 100% sure but it seems to be,

 

[AliGage]

If so I was wondering if on this occasion a decoupling mate would be more suited if height is an issue.
A fleece backed one rather than a quick mat. So something like ditra or dural. The later of which is available at your topps store.
Because it's fleeced backed you can use a rubber resin glue rather than a cement based.
Not 100% which one will allow going over the vinyl. But there will be one.

 

[berilac]

here are some snaps of the kitchen and bathroom floors

 

[berilac]

guys instead of using an hardboard would removing the lino, putting a mesh and tiles over be another option,

 

[AliGage]

Thought the lino was tricky to get up!?

 

[berilac]

Thought the lino was tricky to get up!?

I had a few other people look at it and they think the Lino may come out with a heat gun, the floor may get damaged a little as the adhesive is sticking well and they have suggested I put a mesh and then the tiles, will this work ?

 

[Dave]

I was looking online and found these guys do a competitive price
Black Star Galaxy Granite Tiles | Galaxy Granite Floor Tiles - Stone Superstore

Has anyone used them before?

Ive used these twice and they are spot on... Also just to say , the granite is a bronze fleck and quartz is a silver fleck... Just incase you didnt know.

 

[AliGage]

What mesh?

 

[berilac]

its a wire mesh to support the tiles

 

[berilac]

I have had 3-4 more professionals(hopefully) look at it and its down to two options,

1. One option was to cut the lino+ply sections and replace with 3mm floor + ditra matt and then tile on top. This would keep the height consistent

2. The other option was to just remove the lino and then add a steel wire mesh and then add tiles on top. this would increase the height but is a simpler job

am leaning towards first option,

 

[berilac]

I personally think you should cut around the kitchen units, remove vinyl and whatever ply comes up with it, same in the bathroom, and when you fit the Hardieboard you can self-level the floor to bring it up flat before tiling.
If it isn't going to be done this way, I wouldn't do it, I guess the Hardiebacker could go down over the vinyl, but in effect its ONLY the screws holding it down that way, adhesive underneath not doing much. If he insists on going this way, as long as he compensated with extra screws with adhesive it might hold....but it'd be a heck of a step-up from other rooms.....

Sounds like your suggestion of cutting around the kitchen units might work, this means removing the vinyl + ply a and replacing it with 3mm board + ditra matt is what has been suggested

 

[p4ulo]

Sounds like your suggestion of cutting around the kitchen units might work, this means removing the vinyl + ply a and replacing it with 3mm board + ditra matt is what has been suggested

Hmm, not sure about 3mm boards, Hardie is 6mm and that is what I would be pushing for if I was you. Only 3mm in it, you're never going to notice that but it'll improve the solid feel.

 

[berilac]

nearly done now!

 

[p4ulo]

Yeah, looks good. What went down underneath in the end?

 

[berilac]

removed the vinyl and ply underneath , replaced with hardboard, had to replace some of the timber too as it had gone bad, took ages to level it as the floor was not even but worth it and in the end the height dint increase much too,