Is this wall and floor tiling acceptable?
We didn't agree a further £120 for an extra sq.m of tiles he added on. Quote changed in various ways including one less cabinet made but seems the materials costs are the same as quoted, I'm just more aware of what a hike up that is, now I see what he actually installed. I agreed to materials with the verbal caveat that he wouldn't charge me for things he didn't need to buy (i.e because i was buying so much) and the written agreement that he would take off his "allowances for" big products which I ended up buying after paying him VAT on half of them in the original £4070 invoice. He bracketted allowances and deducted those that I bought as well as deducting some for the trims, grout, sealant and maybe waste pipes which I bought. His quote is laid out in quite a confusing manner. He quoted separately for materials and labour and then added vat of 20% to both.
D
Dumbo
If he is vat registered he has to pay vat , if he is not vat registered and he is charging vat that is illegal he is defrauding the crown and will get into trouble .
Vat or electric
That goes for labour too.. now I see it was all hyper-inflated
[automerge]1581606716[/automerge]
He doeesn't think these gaps are a problem but I think they will allow water ingress, the big disk is the shower mixer and it's not attached, bare ceramic can be seen underneath.
Real VAT number, registered.
[automerge]1581606716[/automerge]
He doeesn't think these gaps are a problem but I think they will allow water ingress, the big disk is the shower mixer and it's not attached, bare ceramic can be seen underneath.
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D
Dumbo
If he has clearly charged you for things he hasnt supplied , and what i think youre saying is he has charged you for more cabinets than he has supplied , tell him youre not paying for them, that is clearly dishonest.
As for showing labour and materials seperately on an estimate that is not confusing that is transparency in what he is charging , and he has to charge vat .
As for showing labour and materials seperately on an estimate that is not confusing that is transparency in what he is charging , and he has to charge vat .
He's not charging me for the missing cabinet but he is charging me for "provisions for sanitary ware" as in above messages in addition to 1.5k fitting but not supplying electric toilet/ sink/ bath and high charging for all materials (1800+VAT when I think the cost was more like £550) Reading through our emails I see he said: "If some work will not be done for some reason it will be removed from the quote or if there will be some extras it will be added on", so if he didn't change any "provisions for sanitary ware" by which I take to mean waste pipes/ feed pipes then he shouldn't charge me the money - but what if he did do this job and it took him 1hr with £5 worth of materials, do I now have recourse to say £600something for that task is exorbitant and I won't pay so much? If he has separated materials from labour do I have a right to see those receipts or say, I can see now that is toooo much for what you actually supplied?
Thanks for sticking with the case!
D
Dumbo
You have no right to see the receipt.
It is very confusing to keep up with you.
Your 1.5 and your 1.8 k and 550 i cant follow at all .
It is very confusing to keep up with you.
Your 1.5 and your 1.8 k and 550 i cant follow at all .
This is for a neighbour about 4 doors up so can walk round with a small tool bag. Its the same bath going in, and in exactly the same place. It was taken out then they decided not to do the project 1 day later!! So I won't be there long at all, especially as there's no alterations.
Lets suppose though that this bath was in place, it was 15miles up the road and it had to be removed, moved 200mm along the wall, all materials were provided and so perhaps 4/5hours work. £150-£170 would be a reasonable amount in my opinion to do the job, especially if you're there anyway doing other stuff as well.
Do you not agree? or do you think that £300 is a fair price?
I know that people have their own rates but to me personally, it seems a little on the steep side.
tbh I don’t really carry out work like that so can’t really say what I would charge.
All I know is I’m with @jcrtiling, and really confused😵
Hmm, to clarify...
Total cost now (having negotiated the tiling down to £45 per sqm for bad finish) is £6,570 incl. VAT. Materials costs being £1800+VAT of that, which I think is way too much having seen what he actually ended up buying (not much).
The things I want to dispute are the mark-up on materials costs and perhaps the price for "Water and waste provisions for Sanitary Ware" which was quoted at £560+vat including materials.
I understand that "Water and waste provisions for new Sanitary ware" means adjusting/supplying pipes to sink/bath/shower but there was no requirement to actually change position of any of these (other than 20cm bath shift)
and ....
This £560+vat does not include bath/sink/waste-pipes/taps/shower or any fitting of the those since these were priced separately and cost (labour only) £1500.
There are some new short white pipes under the bathroom which have been changed (kitchen ceiling open to joists because old bathroom leaked) but two of the four are fitted for the towel radiator (charged separately).
£560 seems a lot for the remaining two white pipes, will have to ask him about it.
Total cost now (having negotiated the tiling down to £45 per sqm for bad finish) is £6,570 incl. VAT. Materials costs being £1800+VAT of that, which I think is way too much having seen what he actually ended up buying (not much).
The things I want to dispute are the mark-up on materials costs and perhaps the price for "Water and waste provisions for Sanitary Ware" which was quoted at £560+vat including materials.
I understand that "Water and waste provisions for new Sanitary ware" means adjusting/supplying pipes to sink/bath/shower but there was no requirement to actually change position of any of these (other than 20cm bath shift)
and ....
This £560+vat does not include bath/sink/waste-pipes/taps/shower or any fitting of the those since these were priced separately and cost (labour only) £1500.
There are some new short white pipes under the bathroom which have been changed (kitchen ceiling open to joists because old bathroom leaked) but two of the four are fitted for the towel radiator (charged separately).
£560 seems a lot for the remaining two white pipes, will have to ask him about it.
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D
Dumbo
If he quoted and you agreed , it is what it is .
I would not be happy if i worked for you then you tried negotiating a new price after the job is finished , now im not taliking about amounts its just the principle of it .
I wouldnt renegotiate with you i would just refer you back to the quote after all you didnt have to accept it .
I would not be happy if i worked for you then you tried negotiating a new price after the job is finished , now im not taliking about amounts its just the principle of it .
I wouldnt renegotiate with you i would just refer you back to the quote after all you didnt have to accept it .
Yes, I get the principle and I very much prefer to stick to my word as a matter of principle.
However, to me, it is not immaterial that materials costs were inflated (I couldn't truly see this before due to lack of experience) and there still may be work which was not done which I am being charged for.
I appreciate he accepted to discount (down to fairly standard tiling labour costs from high ones) for poor work, I would have preferred him to have priced at the standard he was able to honestly fulfill, since I spent on tiles to match the standard I expected at that price and he didn't do justice to them.
Generally I don't feel he has priced with fair principles for his materials nor labour costs and he 'negged' me as his client, trying to get away with doing less to fix the threshold gap for instance and haggling over minutea himself, such as whether to reduce his materials cost to reflect that I bought the waste pipes myself, even though he agreed such deductions were 'of course' okay at the outset. He also refuses now to fit my shower rail which is the curtain rail for the whole room, so I will have to get someone else in to do it and to hang the mirror.
I was recently bereaved when I hired him, had to get the new bathroom fitted in a hurry and went with the recommeded guy since I thought would take less communication and energy, I also thought he would "get" my "vision" better than the cheaper quote, but I'm not sure that factored in eventuality. I went with the expensive quote and learnt a fair bit along the way.
I think I was a pretty good client, got his favourite brand of taps, was there to answer his questions quickly etc. When he complained I asked too many questions I said we should just have scheduled 'catch ups' which worked okay. The bathroom was taken out early November by the way and I didn't hassle him about timings, even though it's my only bathroom and it's just getting fully finished now.
Neither of us made a friend and there's something sad about that. Being on this situation reminds me that it's best to do the best you can for a fair price that honestly reflects your skill level, building someone's house is quite an intimate thing and there will be a record of you in their home, so "don't go through life with a catchers mitt on both hands". That's this clients view of it.
However, to me, it is not immaterial that materials costs were inflated (I couldn't truly see this before due to lack of experience) and there still may be work which was not done which I am being charged for.
I appreciate he accepted to discount (down to fairly standard tiling labour costs from high ones) for poor work, I would have preferred him to have priced at the standard he was able to honestly fulfill, since I spent on tiles to match the standard I expected at that price and he didn't do justice to them.
Generally I don't feel he has priced with fair principles for his materials nor labour costs and he 'negged' me as his client, trying to get away with doing less to fix the threshold gap for instance and haggling over minutea himself, such as whether to reduce his materials cost to reflect that I bought the waste pipes myself, even though he agreed such deductions were 'of course' okay at the outset. He also refuses now to fit my shower rail which is the curtain rail for the whole room, so I will have to get someone else in to do it and to hang the mirror.
I was recently bereaved when I hired him, had to get the new bathroom fitted in a hurry and went with the recommeded guy since I thought would take less communication and energy, I also thought he would "get" my "vision" better than the cheaper quote, but I'm not sure that factored in eventuality. I went with the expensive quote and learnt a fair bit along the way.
I think I was a pretty good client, got his favourite brand of taps, was there to answer his questions quickly etc. When he complained I asked too many questions I said we should just have scheduled 'catch ups' which worked okay. The bathroom was taken out early November by the way and I didn't hassle him about timings, even though it's my only bathroom and it's just getting fully finished now.
Neither of us made a friend and there's something sad about that. Being on this situation reminds me that it's best to do the best you can for a fair price that honestly reflects your skill level, building someone's house is quite an intimate thing and there will be a record of you in their home, so "don't go through life with a catchers mitt on both hands". That's this clients view of it.
if he would of done a perfect job to your satisfaction, would you have paid the full price quoted...??
just because you have found out afterwards his prices are inflated, is not his problem.
it's all about customers doing there homework on what certain materials costs, and choosing the right tradesman for the job before excepting a quotation and allowing the work to go ahead.
you should be more focused and getting the job done right, to your satisfaction, then paying in full.
and not excepting a half assed job and barging over the final payment.
just because you have found out afterwards his prices are inflated, is not his problem.
it's all about customers doing there homework on what certain materials costs, and choosing the right tradesman for the job before excepting a quotation and allowing the work to go ahead.
you should be more focused and getting the job done right, to your satisfaction, then paying in full.
and not excepting a half assed job and barging over the final payment.
D
Dumbo
I am very sorry for your loss ,
I am trying to look at this from the outside in , i think you are stuck with the labour costs as that is what you contractually agreed to , but if he is charging for items thay he didnt supply and you can prove it that is a different story ,
Im no lawyer but by negotiating a reduced fee on the tiling based on his workmanship probably means by law youve now accepted that .
I imagine if you went to a lawyer he would probably tell you its not worth it .
I know its your home and your money , but life us too short and it is probably better for your health to move on and put it down to experience .
I think if you want to take this further you should speak a solicitor or trading standards .
I wish you all the best in the future
Jcr
I am trying to look at this from the outside in , i think you are stuck with the labour costs as that is what you contractually agreed to , but if he is charging for items thay he didnt supply and you can prove it that is a different story ,
Im no lawyer but by negotiating a reduced fee on the tiling based on his workmanship probably means by law youve now accepted that .
I imagine if you went to a lawyer he would probably tell you its not worth it .
I know its your home and your money , but life us too short and it is probably better for your health to move on and put it down to experience .
I think if you want to take this further you should speak a solicitor or trading standards .
I wish you all the best in the future
Jcr
The markup is the same now as it was when you accepted the quote. I get the impression you've spoken to a few people about the price you've agreed and they've told you its very expensive, so now you feel you have been taken for a mug.
It's too late now if you've agreed to the quote and you should have done your homework in the first place. If you were unhappy at the time, you should have got some alternative quotes. You cant instruct someone to work then try to screw them down on price afterwards on certain items purely because you think they are charging too much.
Also it sounds like he has reduced the fee per sq mtr for tiling which you have agreed because you are not entirely happy with the finish, so he's clearly not entirely unreasonable.
It's too late now if you've agreed to the quote and you should have done your homework in the first place. If you were unhappy at the time, you should have got some alternative quotes. You cant instruct someone to work then try to screw them down on price afterwards on certain items purely because you think they are charging too much.
Also it sounds like he has reduced the fee per sq mtr for tiling which you have agreed because you are not entirely happy with the finish, so he's clearly not entirely unreasonable.
Well, I paid him as agreed in the quote minus the agreed deduction for tiling, minus £100 because the electrician wouldn't sign off on the main ceiling light's IP rating after contractor approved it and with the cost of the waste-pipes I bought taken off his materials costs. Thanks for your advice and moving on now!
£90 to fit bath, fit screen and taps??? ha ha ha!
So two days after paying him as listed above I had the new boiler fitting guys around and they asked who did the plumbing to the towel radiator? because the way its plumbed in it will never come up to full heat, it's not the simple loop it should be... well guess who did it and let's see how long it takes to answer my email/ calls about it!
All done in under 3 hours, so £30/hr isn't bad for a Saturday morning. It cost me 3 rail plugs and 3 screws for the shower screen which was already drilled for. The hardest part was getting the old tap off the bath, 15 minute job that lol.
There are similar tiling threads here
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