D
Deleted member 51481
Hello, is my idea the sign of a madman or not please. If it is acceptable then I assume i 'gradulise' 2mm increments with SLC
O
Old Mod
Yes what you’re suggesting is possible, bearing in mind the more layers you use, the room for error increases, so be fastidious when fixing boards.
Wipe any dust away, priming them would help.
Do not allow boards to align, brick bond them, and tape all the joints with a wide scrim and flatten with tile adhesive.
Using latex to feather them is possible, but it is designed to flow, so it would have to be a thicker mix, or use rapid setting tile adhesive.
Use standard set when laying floor, and prime the boards and any latex or tile adhesive you’ve previously applied.
You could use a PTB adhesive instead of feathering the boards, (pourable thick bed) this would allow you to still achieve a full bed because it would take up any voids.
However these are invariably rapid setting adhesives, they’re messy and quite difficult to use.
You should only mix small amounts if taking this route, otherwise you’ll throw away more than you use.
The task you are taking on is really quite difficult, even some experienced fitters would struggle to achieve good results.
It’ll take time and patience when laying the floor.
I’d suggest starting at the point of lowest clearance at the bi-folds, and working back to the highest.
Coming up from a low point is far easier than the other way around.
In an ideal world you’d have a straight edge long enough to reach from the old floor to the doors, as this is some 5 metres, it won’t be possible, so you should at least use a sting line, this way you can be sure of an even gradient as the floor falls toward the doors.
You will also need an expansion joint between old and new floors to allow for lateral movement.
Put a tile joint on the expansion joint and fill with a colourmatch Silicon to match the grout.
How old is the slab, has it been moisture tested?
You’re a brave man.
Good luck.
Wipe any dust away, priming them would help.
Do not allow boards to align, brick bond them, and tape all the joints with a wide scrim and flatten with tile adhesive.
Using latex to feather them is possible, but it is designed to flow, so it would have to be a thicker mix, or use rapid setting tile adhesive.
Use standard set when laying floor, and prime the boards and any latex or tile adhesive you’ve previously applied.
You could use a PTB adhesive instead of feathering the boards, (pourable thick bed) this would allow you to still achieve a full bed because it would take up any voids.
However these are invariably rapid setting adhesives, they’re messy and quite difficult to use.
You should only mix small amounts if taking this route, otherwise you’ll throw away more than you use.
The task you are taking on is really quite difficult, even some experienced fitters would struggle to achieve good results.
It’ll take time and patience when laying the floor.
I’d suggest starting at the point of lowest clearance at the bi-folds, and working back to the highest.
Coming up from a low point is far easier than the other way around.
In an ideal world you’d have a straight edge long enough to reach from the old floor to the doors, as this is some 5 metres, it won’t be possible, so you should at least use a sting line, this way you can be sure of an even gradient as the floor falls toward the doors.
You will also need an expansion joint between old and new floors to allow for lateral movement.
Put a tile joint on the expansion joint and fill with a colourmatch Silicon to match the grout.
How old is the slab, has it been moisture tested?
You’re a brave man.
Good luck.
W
Waluigi
Are you doing this work in your own home or for a paying customer?
O
Old Mod
His home as far as I can tell.
D
Deleted member 51481
Correct. Should I cut my loss and go for a a screed. I'm just worried that they won't get the fall right 30mm > 5mm
W
Waluigi
I think you need a professional to come over to take a look and get a price.
O
Old Mod
A regular screed wouldn’t work, you don’t have enough depth.
Even a Ronafix Screed only goes down to 15mm.
Maybe call them and see if they have a solution.
Ronacrete | Ronafix for Screeds - https://www.ronacrete.co.uk/product/ronafix-for-screeds/
Even a Ronafix Screed only goes down to 15mm.
Maybe call them and see if they have a solution.
Ronacrete | Ronafix for Screeds - https://www.ronacrete.co.uk/product/ronafix-for-screeds/
D
Deleted member 51481
I have a quote from UKScreeds LTD - £1020 inc VAT - to supply and lay 30sqm of low laitance Anhydrite Liquid Screed. They have advised they can create the fall I need but only to a minimum depth of 15mm so i would have to live with a 10mm step on the bifold door cill which is not the end of the world. What do you think of this quote thought - the company looks very reputable?
S
Spare Tool
Personally I wouldn't want a lip on the patio doors, you'll look at it everytime you come through the door knowing it didn't really have to be there.. You could do with getting a tiler round that knows how to prep this properly even if you tile it yourself
O
Old Mod
To eliminate the lip put a baton on the existing screed at the point they would need to stop to allow the last piece to be ramped to the threshold with adhesive.
If 15mm is their limit, (same as Ronafix) set a string line from the top of the existing screed to the bottom of the threshold at the low point.
Then measure the height of the string line back toward the screed to the point it measures 15mm off the new screed. That’s the point you fix a baton to the new screed for them to follow.
Hope that makes sense.
£34m2 is not actually that bad In my opinion.
By the time you take in to account materials, boards etc, and labour, plus the fact it should leave you a perfect ramped surface, I think it’s competitive.
If 15mm is their limit, (same as Ronafix) set a string line from the top of the existing screed to the bottom of the threshold at the low point.
Then measure the height of the string line back toward the screed to the point it measures 15mm off the new screed. That’s the point you fix a baton to the new screed for them to follow.
Hope that makes sense.
£34m2 is not actually that bad In my opinion.
By the time you take in to account materials, boards etc, and labour, plus the fact it should leave you a perfect ramped surface, I think it’s competitive.
D
Deleted member 51481
Thanks 3 Fall, I could do with a diagram if you can spare a minute or two as I'm struggling to visualise your solution.
Thanks for the reassurance on the price too. What is the going rate for tiling per sq m on a job like this assuming the screed is already down please?
Thanks for the reassurance on the price too. What is the going rate for tiling per sq m on a job like this assuming the screed is already down please?
O
Old Mod
Unfortunately we can’t discuss Tiling rates in an open forum, it creates too many issues, mainly because of regional price variations.
Let’s say someone in London see a job in Scotland for £5m2, believe me when I say there will be those who will expect the same rate no matter where they live. That’s just one of the reasons it’s not discussed publically.
The cost of your works will be worth whatever feels comfortable to you.
You should get more than one quote if you have no connections to the industry, no matter how tenuous, and make sure you check their work, either by a site visit or portfolio, which ever you are at ease with.
I’m always happy for a potential client to visit me on site, and have done it numerous times.
Ask to speak to previous clients of theirs.
Don’t be embarrassed to ask, if he’s reputable, he will gladly put you in touch.
If he gets aggressive and defensive, I’d move on.
It’s your money and you will have invested a great deal when it’s all complete, protect it.
Ask him to provide a method statement with his quote, a detailed plan of action if you will, and if you’re unsure swing by here and we can assess his method statement, but not his price.
That’s between you.
See what I can do about diagram.
Let’s say someone in London see a job in Scotland for £5m2, believe me when I say there will be those who will expect the same rate no matter where they live. That’s just one of the reasons it’s not discussed publically.
The cost of your works will be worth whatever feels comfortable to you.
You should get more than one quote if you have no connections to the industry, no matter how tenuous, and make sure you check their work, either by a site visit or portfolio, which ever you are at ease with.
I’m always happy for a potential client to visit me on site, and have done it numerous times.
Ask to speak to previous clients of theirs.
Don’t be embarrassed to ask, if he’s reputable, he will gladly put you in touch.
If he gets aggressive and defensive, I’d move on.
It’s your money and you will have invested a great deal when it’s all complete, protect it.
Ask him to provide a method statement with his quote, a detailed plan of action if you will, and if you’re unsure swing by here and we can assess his method statement, but not his price.
That’s between you.
See what I can do about diagram.
O
Old Mod
It’s crude but hopefully tells you enough.
Last edited by a moderator:
O
Old Mod
I certainly don’t profess to know all about anhydride screeds, but generally we know them to be a liquid screed which, when laid correctly, give a perfectly flat and level substrate.
So I for one, would be very interested to know how they deal with creating a fall.
So if there’s any chance of a few images of them carrying out the process, it’d be great if you could post them in here.
You mention it’s low laitance screed, this laitance will have to be removed at some point, ask if they return to carry out the process, a lot of companies provide this within their service. (It has to be sanded off)
Also, the prep for Tiling anhydride screeds is very specific, if you go ahead, come back and ask first before attempting to tile it.
So I for one, would be very interested to know how they deal with creating a fall.
So if there’s any chance of a few images of them carrying out the process, it’d be great if you could post them in here.
You mention it’s low laitance screed, this laitance will have to be removed at some point, ask if they return to carry out the process, a lot of companies provide this within their service. (It has to be sanded off)
Also, the prep for Tiling anhydride screeds is very specific, if you go ahead, come back and ask first before attempting to tile it.
D
Deleted member 51481
Thanks for the diagram 3 Fall, very useful. I asked for an explanation of how this company achieves a fall and the manager called me and gave me an overview as follows:
1/ concrete floor is made wet – apparently creates a better bond for the new screed as otherwise the moisture would be sucked out by the concrete
2/ datum points are made and tripods are positioned with ‘little spinning discs’ or something like that at intervals/sections
3/ Screed is made with slightly less water to make a ticker mix – 250 litres instead of 300 litres for example
4/ Screen is poured and tempered down gently
I emphasised how critical it is to get the level 100% flat as well as the fall and they said this not an issue and they have to deal with special jobs like this at least once a week – they have four gangs out on the road at any one point.
The manager also said that the screed by the bifold door cill (only the access door) could be as low as 10mm as it’s a small area so I might only have to deal with a 5mm lip which might not be noticeable but still keen to deploy your proposed solution.
Finally - he also advised that it would be cheaper for me to sand off as they charge £150 so I could hire a machine and do it myself.
1/ concrete floor is made wet – apparently creates a better bond for the new screed as otherwise the moisture would be sucked out by the concrete
2/ datum points are made and tripods are positioned with ‘little spinning discs’ or something like that at intervals/sections
3/ Screed is made with slightly less water to make a ticker mix – 250 litres instead of 300 litres for example
4/ Screen is poured and tempered down gently
I emphasised how critical it is to get the level 100% flat as well as the fall and they said this not an issue and they have to deal with special jobs like this at least once a week – they have four gangs out on the road at any one point.
The manager also said that the screed by the bifold door cill (only the access door) could be as low as 10mm as it’s a small area so I might only have to deal with a 5mm lip which might not be noticeable but still keen to deploy your proposed solution.
Finally - he also advised that it would be cheaper for me to sand off as they charge £150 so I could hire a machine and do it myself.
O
Old Mod
Excellent thank you.
Very useful info.
I had made enquiries this morning actually, it’s good to get it confirmed by yourself too.
Very useful info.
I had made enquiries this morning actually, it’s good to get it confirmed by yourself too.
D
Deleted member 51481
Ok so I obtained a quote from another supplier and although it's slightly more expensive it seems a better product compared to the other. The first one mentioned above (http://www.tarmac.com/media/492582/topflowscreeda_datasheet_rebrand.pdf),
when I checked the spec minimum thickness is 30mm yet I need it to go down to 5mm in one section to avoid a lip on the bifold door cill. The product this new supplier has quoted minimum thickness is 5mm which is perfect. Also there is no sanding required. Makes me wonder why the other company didn't recommend using this instead. The only thing I'm cautious of is that it's not a wearable screed and you're supposed to tile straight after but I won't be able to do that until I have fitted a kitchen and stone worktops which is going to take three weeks and then it's Xmas and new year so long delays. So resolve one issue yet introduce another.
Please check it out and advise which route to take.
weberfloor 4320 fibre flow rapid - https://www.uk.weber/weberfloor-4320-fibre-flow-rapid
when I checked the spec minimum thickness is 30mm yet I need it to go down to 5mm in one section to avoid a lip on the bifold door cill. The product this new supplier has quoted minimum thickness is 5mm which is perfect. Also there is no sanding required. Makes me wonder why the other company didn't recommend using this instead. The only thing I'm cautious of is that it's not a wearable screed and you're supposed to tile straight after but I won't be able to do that until I have fitted a kitchen and stone worktops which is going to take three weeks and then it's Xmas and new year so long delays. So resolve one issue yet introduce another.
Please check it out and advise which route to take.
weberfloor 4320 fibre flow rapid - https://www.uk.weber/weberfloor-4320-fibre-flow-rapid
O
Old Mod
I’m not a Weber user as a rule, far as I know that’s just a fibre reinforced slc (self levelling compound)
That’s nothing like the first product you looked at.
That’s why it’s not a wearable surface, it’s more of a repair product.
I’m not saying it’s not suitable, in the right hands, it is, but they’ve got to be good to sort your floor.
Here’s some maths for you, it’s too late for me. 🙂
Slc on average consumption of 1.7kgs per mm per m2
You require 30m2 @5mm
And 30m2 @12.5mm
(Max height remaining from 30mm after first 5mm is 25, divided by 2 gives you overall thickness of 25mm to zero.)
That will give you the amount of slc required.
Divide it by 25 for number of bags required.
Think Weber are 25’s
Google the price of a bag or call a tile store, think Ctd keep Weber.
You’ll be able to work out labour costs very approx.
That’s nothing like the first product you looked at.
That’s why it’s not a wearable surface, it’s more of a repair product.
I’m not saying it’s not suitable, in the right hands, it is, but they’ve got to be good to sort your floor.
Here’s some maths for you, it’s too late for me. 🙂
Slc on average consumption of 1.7kgs per mm per m2
You require 30m2 @5mm
And 30m2 @12.5mm
(Max height remaining from 30mm after first 5mm is 25, divided by 2 gives you overall thickness of 25mm to zero.)
That will give you the amount of slc required.
Divide it by 25 for number of bags required.
Think Weber are 25’s
Google the price of a bag or call a tile store, think Ctd keep Weber.
You’ll be able to work out labour costs very approx.
D
Deleted member 51481
I guess I won't get in trouble for discussing screedig costs on a tilers forum so I've been quoted £1k in cash which sounds a lot but I would struggle to get anyone reputable to go lower than that. Materials work out about £300 I calculated approximately and I'm not just paying for the day labour as its travel and specialist equipment (pumping machine maybe). The way I see it I get good flat level floor to tile off so I offset any experienced tiler costs by tiling myself. Any thoughts or concerns please.
There are similar tiling threads here
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