Opinions please on ongoing floor tiling job - Tile Advice

[Ullana]

Hi,

I’m not a tiler - which is why I have one in working away on my new kitchen floor! However I struggle to see the floor lasting very long due to the amount of void under the tiles.

I raised my concerns with the man in charge of the project who said the tiler has since explained that he will ‘pump the gaps with adhesive’.

So can someone help me out to validate my fears or alleviate them….

The floor was uneven and a little unsteady previously. It has been ply’d out and a LOT of screws/nails put in. Afterwards some electric heating mats were put down and then there was a self levelling screed poured. MThe electric mats are just to take the chill off the tiles, not heat the room. Every other picture I’ve seen has the mats tightly packed but I seem to have only half the coverage - is this adequte for a gentle heat dispersion across the tiles?

The screed dried very quickly and tiling work commenced the next day. After a couple of days I am just looking at the tiles and I fear the tiles will be prone to snapping due load distribution. When the tiles were going down I think the tiler was back buttering and then slapping down about 5 big globs of adhesive on top before pressing onto the screed.

Is this being followed up with ‘pumping in adhesive’ (which wasn’t mentioned until I questioned the work) a normal technique or am I being taken for a ride now the job is underway? The guys have been really good up until now and there has been some trust built - but I would really appreciate another set of eyes on it as it is sitting uneasy and the explanation wasn’t convincing…

I’ve measured the ‘air gap’ in mm at the midpoint of each tile around the edge in that photo to give you pros an idea of what’s going on.

It appears they are using Mapei ProFast Leveller and Mapei ProFlexible.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Trigger]

Heating mat should be completely encased in either levelling compound or tile adhesive. Should also have full coverage of tile adhesive under tiles.

 

[Ullana]

Thanks for your reply, Trigger.

As it stands there are a couple of exposed parts which are embedded in the screed (but it’s not deep enough to cover the element). Can these just be covered part screed / part tile adhesive? Also, are there any big risks (like fire?) if they were left exposed?

Thanks again.

 

[Trigger]

Thanks for your reply, Trigger.

As it stands there are a couple of exposed parts which are embedded in the screed (but it’s not deep enough to cover the element). Can these just be covered part screed / part tile adhesive? Also, are there any big risks (like fire?) if they were left exposed?

Thanks again.

The ones I normally install just require the cable to be fully encased. I don't see why part covering with screed and part tile adhesive would be an issue but if in any doubt speak to the manufacturer, they will be happy to help to ensure that their product is installed correctly.

 

[Dave]

His fixing method is totally wrong , they should be fully bedded and not dabbed like that.

 

[Ullana]

Thanks for the replies guys. Am I aiming for the tiles to be lifted and fitted differently or is the ‘pumping in adhesive’ a valid technique. I can’t find anything supporting that though.

I am totally aware that I have zero tiling experience though and I don’t want to sound like a Googlebasher or plain dismissive - I just want the job done right and my gut is telling me that this can’t be right.

As an aside: the reason they resorted to the ‘dab’ is because the floor is uneven, it’s a ‘big build up’ and they ‘cant get a 35mm (iirc) trowel’. I’ve been assured it’s definitely not dot/dab as there’s “much more adhesive behind it than that.”

Is the root problem that the screeding was rushed/not enough used and the floor is still uneven? The gaps between the levelled tiles and the screed floor are in one of the photos…

 

[Travee]

Trigger is right. Heat mat needs to be encased. Electric in-floor heating is very safe, so I wouldn't be concerned about a fire hazard, but a lot of things in these pictures make me concerned about the heat/tile failing. They likely thought the amount of self-leveller they had budgeted would be enough to account for the wonky floor, but it looks like that was not the case, and now the tile setter is doing a poor job of accounting for the imperfections in the floor by putting thinset in in spots. Porcelain tile is not necessarily fragile (it takes a lot of focused pressure to make it break), but I would be concerned about the tiles breaking under weight as you mentioned, especially with gaps of that size around the perimeter of the tiles. With appliances and furniture on it. If you can hear hollow spots when you tap a tile with a broom handle, it means there are significant voids under the tiles, which will mean uneven heat transfer and risk of tiles breaking.

I also notice a few other things that tell me the installer was struggling to even get to this level of installation. The self leveller or floor patch looks like it was unevenly mixed. It looks like they don't have much experience mixing this product, or they didnt care to measure the parts/mix it thoroughly. Laso the wire has not been floated over properly, to protect it from getting damaged by trowels or traffic. I would check the resistance of the heating with a multimeter if it hasnt been done already, to make sure it hasn't already been messed up. Also in a job this size, it's unusual to leave out the perimeter tiles, unless you were having a hard time with installing the tiles in the center. When using levelling clips, you should at least put the clips in around the perimeter, so that when you add-on to what's already been set, you can still use the levelling clips. They cant use levelling clips on the perimeter tiles now, becuase the thinset will have set underneath the tiles, and they can put clips in.

These might be nitpicky points, but they are things that I don't do. Good luck with the rest!

 

[Ullana]

Thanks for the reply!

As for the clips around the perimeter… there is next to no adhesive around the edges at the moment. Perhaps the plan was to deal with these as he comes to them?

I know it is Sunday but I was told to expect a call from them today to discuss the upcoming work… but I haven’t received it and they aren’t picking up my call.

I’m beginning to feel a little uneasy about the whole thing now…

 

[Travee]

Thanks for the reply!

As for the clips around the perimeter… there is next to no adhesive around the edges at the moment. Perhaps the plan was to deal with these as he comes to them?

I know it is Sunday but I was told to expect a call from them today to discuss the upcoming work… but I haven’t received it and they aren’t picking up my call.

I’m beginning to feel a little uneasy about the whole thing now…

Yeah, just someone running up against a job that was more than they could handle at their experience level. As much as you are uneasy about it, I hope the installer is more uneasy. But try to stay positive with the outfit and they will likely be more inclined to help you. I always feel better helping people that try to stay positive more than people who are inclined to get nasty with me instantly. The chances of it overall being a positive experience with them seem small now, but things can change.

Looking closer at the pictures...Those are some definite hills of thinset under those pieces. I have seen pics of smaller mountains from the Mars Rover.

That floor be fricked

 

[Ullana]

The chap in charge has got back in touch. Turns out he had something pop up. That has put my mind at ease that he’s not just packed up and left

As I said - there was an element of trust with the weeks of work done this far. I’m not planning on being nasty about it, just factual. I want the truth and a fix over bodge. Throughout the job and delays I’ve said ‘I don’t care provided it’s done right’. I’ve been flexible.

I guess it’s difficult without seeing it but could take a guess at the solution? And when you say fricked does that mean it’ll need stripped all the way back to ply and trying again?

Thanks for everything this far.

 

[Dave]

It does need stripping back out and the correct preparation and then the correct fixing method of the tiles.

 

[Kaffee]

I think everything has been said. Just wanted to add: you might feel uneasy about talking to the tiler about it but it's much easier to fix now!

 

[Huddersfield Tiling]

A "job" that will not last.
Poorly prepared background, badly executed tiling, with tile failure most probable.
Plastic lift clips won't allow the required thick-bed solid-bed of adhesive between the tile and substrate from what I can see in the photos provided. They will create a void much like laying flagstones as builders do in outside areas. This often causes hollows (voids) underneath the tiles where the tile does not have full contact with the adhesive and/or substrate (floor). This will result in tile failure (lifting and cracking).

 

[Phone-a-tiler]

Trigger is right. Heat mat needs to be encased. Electric in-floor heating is very safe, so I wouldn't be concerned about a fire hazard, but a lot of things in these pictures make me concerned about the heat/tile failing. They likely thought the amount of self-leveller they had budgeted would be enough to account for the wonky floor, but it looks like that was not the case, and now the tile setter is doing a poor job of accounting for the imperfections in the floor by putting thinset in in spots. Porcelain tile is not necessarily fragile (it takes a lot of focused pressure to make it break), but I would be concerned about the tiles breaking under weight as you mentioned, especially with gaps of that size around the perimeter of the tiles. With appliances and furniture on it. If you can hear hollow spots when you tap a tile with a broom handle, it means there are significant voids under the tiles, which will mean uneven heat transfer and risk of tiles breaking.

I also notice a few other things that tell me the installer was struggling to even get to this level of installation. The self leveller or floor patch looks like it was unevenly mixed. It looks like they don't have much experience mixing this product, or they didnt care to measure the parts/mix it thoroughly. Laso the wire has not been floated over properly, to protect it from getting damaged by trowels or traffic. I would check the resistance of the heating with a multimeter if it hasnt been done already, to make sure it hasn't already been messed up. Also in a job this size, it's unusual to leave out the perimeter tiles, unless you were having a hard time with installing the tiles in the center. When using levelling clips, you should at least put the clips in around the perimeter, so that when you add-on to what's already been set, you can still use the levelling clips. They cant use levelling clips on the perimeter tiles now, becuase the thinset will have set underneath the tiles, and they can put clips in.

These might be nitpicky points, but they are things that I don't do. Good luck with the rest!

Id agree. Clips are great to use but a nightmare to fit around the edge the next day when the glue is dry

 

[parkerfresh]

basically, they’ve not priced in enough floor screed and now he’s trying to get over it with a good old fashion dot’n’dab.

You can tile straight over electrical underfloor heating but it’s risky in the fact that you can catch the cable with a trowel and broken tile removal is absolute aggro!

Ultimately, he was lying to you about pumping in adhesive. He is going to dot and dab until he finishes, make a nice job of the grout and tell you he pumped gear in, then in 6 months time your going to drop something on a void which will crack your tile, and when trying to remove it, your heating cable will get damaged as it’s not fully encapsulated in screed, then the whole lots going to have to come up or you live without underfloor heating.