Does Sealing The Back Of Stone Impair Adhesion?

[Gazzer]

What are your opinions regarding sealing stone by sealing the full tile, front, back and sides before fixing. Do you think it would impair the adhesive bond ?

 

[Tony73]

no need to seal back

 

[Mr Tiler]

if you are supposed to re-seal tiles in a wet area every half year then the bond to the tile cant be all that so what I would be thinking is only seal up the face and sides

 

[The D]

I think it will not adversely affect the adhesion in any way

 

[Gazzer]

I have to admit that I have never sealed all the tile but recent conversations have me curious about this........watch this space but first I need to gather more info from all of you.

 

[peteablard]

^^^^^What he says!!^^^^^
Sorry Neale I'm not going to keep following you around copying your answers but er..... I am on this one! Should be interesting! I've answered this based on how I've always previously done it.

 

[Tony73]

when you use akemi stone adhesive, it will stick better to unsealed stone

 

[Rookery]

I've never sealed the reverse. It seems pointless as its main function is to help prevent stains on the surface. I dont know for definite but I would expect addy to stick better if the stone wasnt sealed on the back, provided it wasnt dusty.

 

[The D]

when you use akemi stone adhesive, it will stick better to unsealed stone

Never heard of it

 

[Tony73]

Never heard of it

well I work with natural stone a lot , I also have few friends (stone masons) , they work with stone every day for many years, and they say the same thing. But let's see what other members say

 

[Gazzer]

Keep your thoughts coming...remember this will be a debate not an argument. All will be revealed in time but I will need your help once again before that can happen.

 

[Concrete guy]

There are reasons why you don't pre seal stone products, most of which are to do with adhesion and water dispersion.

Most stone is wet cut at the production plant and unless it's a particularly hot country is often packed wet.

In an ideal world any case of stone should be unpacked and allowed to dry/settle in the room in which it's being fitted. But that's not practical in the real world.

So you fit the stone raw, with a suitable adhesive and allow it all to dry, then use sealing products.

I can see your thought process Neale, but in the real world it's very unusual for a stone tile delivery to be free from moisture. Any moisture content would inhibit the effectiveness of chemicals applied to it.

 

[The D]

well I work with natural stone a lot , I also have few friends (stone masons) , they work with stone every day for many years, and they say the same thing. But let's see what other members say

lol done a bit myself m8

 

[Tony73]

I did a lot of stone work for "ideal stone interiors" years ago. And they have drying room, so we used to dry stone properly and then seal. But I agree with you ATS , many stone suppliers bring vet stone tiles to site.

 

[Tony73]

lol done a bit myself m8

I know deano, you have much more years then me , in tiling . And I have learned something from you already mate. Only saying my opinion about this

 

[The D]

just pulling your leg m8 :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Tony73]

just pulling your leg m8 :smilewinkgrin:

Thanks for that :lol:

 

[jonnyc]

There are reasons why you don't pre seal stone products, most of which are to do with adhesion and water dispersion.

Most stone is wet cut at the production plant and unless it's a particularly hot country is often packed wet.

In an ideal world any case of stone should be unpacked and allowed to dry/settle in the room in which it's being fitted. But that's not practical in the real world.

So you fit the stone raw, with a suitable adhesive and allow it all to dry, then use sealing products.

I can see your thought process Neale, but in the real world it's very unusual for a stone tile delivery to be free from moisture. Any moisture content would inhibit the effectiveness of chemicals applied to it.

exactly what i think as well.
there is a stone company called stoneage in london who recommend me to fix their products.
they have a service whereby they preseal the stone prior to delivery.
this is only advantageous if you are on a tight schedule or access problems with people getting on floor like tight jobs in london.
but they do not seal the stone until it is bone dry . they have a big room with racks on which they lay stone and air can get all round it. then dehumidifiers etc.
i did used to question what happens with the mositure that is in the adhesive if top of stone sealed , but appently stainstop does let moisture up through it.
far more moisture obviously if fixing stone in normal set which i never do anyway.
there is also a big stone company in italy that preseals peitra serena and if you are doing a job outside this is very helpful .

in the 80s fired earth used to tell everyone to lay out terracotta and preseal because of fear of staining dutring fixing but they always delivered dry terracotta.

you can get picture framing on very porous stone from ingress of moisture in grout which is why we always try and get sealers down edges of joints .

 

[jonnyc]

I did a lot of stone work for "ideal stone interiors" years ago. And they have drying room, so we used to dry stone properly and then seal. But I agree with you ATS , many stone suppliers bring vet stone tiles to site.

i think they may have got their stone presealed by stoneage tony.

 

[jonnyc]

tony are ideal stone the company who have irish owners.
i rember getting stuff cut there maybe 6 -7 years ago . green 40mm brazilain slate cut in to 900 x 300 pool copings from slab. you might have cut it for me !!!

 

[Tony73]

tony are ideal stone the company who have irish owners.
i rember getting stuff cut there maybe 6 -7 years ago . green 40mm brazilain slate cut in to 900 x 300 pool copings from slab. you might have cut it for me !!!

Yes Jonnyc, irish I was still doing some work for them 6-7 years ago. Actually most of fitting and templating :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Tony73]

John Lohan was the owner, but he moved back to Ireland, and now I think Australian guy Brad is thaaa boss . But same masons work there, thre big Ukrainians

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

What are your opinions regarding sealing stone by sealing the full tile, front, back and sides before fixing. Do you think it would impair the adhesive bond ?

Good question Neale, I know why you are asking it.

I have never dipped stone or any tile, I have on occasions sealed the sides as well as the face prior to fixing. Look forward to the results.

 

[Gazzer]

Seems though that the main question hasgone unanswered...."Will it impair adhesion"

 

[Tony73]

I say, YES

 

[Tony73]

or I just don't like sealed back of the tile ))

 

[White Room]

I've allways been told never seal the back of the tile for adhesion purposes...

 

[Mr Tiler]

I do know one thing is that I would rather tile a room and then seal it before and after grouting rather take all the tiles home and spend the evening sealing them up

 

[jonnyc]

I think it depends on what sealer you are referring to.a surface seal that makes stone totally non porous would not help adhesion. An impregnator sealer on a fairly open porous stone would not impair I don't think.depends on the stone underside and the sealer really I imagine. Not sure where this leading to but I have heard of self cleaning tiles and I guess there could be aversion for stone .
And suppliers may dunk them in a magic sealer before distribution.

 

[Tony73]

I do know one thing is that I would rather tile a room and then seal it before and after grouting rather take all the tiles home and spend the evening sealing them up

some tiles you seal before tiling, for sure