Newby wants any advice available!

[kickinside]

I have a little project on the go - remodeling the bathroom, i have done some tilling before (kitchen/utility) but this is whole different game....

Bathroom is 1951 build, brick built walls with a mixture of existing surfaces. Mostly 1/2 3/4 inch of original plaster over painted with god alone know what (certainly emulsion figures in there and probably an eggshell too) - plaster is sound as is the paint. Some areas are back to bare brick where hacked out the existing tiles round the bath (they were on a mortar bed that came with them), also some areas of bare brick where walls (airing cupboard) have been removed (were at 90 degrees to existing walls). plaster is alleged to be renovating (?) plaster as this was the 'show house' and they did a 'good job' (living in the house i might argue that point but there you go!)

The walls are to be tilled floor to ceiling (i am intending to fit skirting at he bottom and commence the tilling at circa 75mm above floor level and finish in trim strips circa the same under ceiling level (ceiling inst exactly totally level!)

Shower will be a free standing shower cabin so no problem with tiles being sprayed with water etc.

Tiles are 400*400 9mm porcelain (chosen by she who must be obeyed!), 3mm gaps have been decreed (she thinks the 4mm in the kitchen were too big)

Area to be tiled is approx 17 m2 - mainly straight runs as the toilet will be in a cabinet, the sink is counter top etc...

I have a wet cutter (gantry type overhead unit with water pump) already tried the standard blade on the tiles and its ...well not good, quite a bit of edge chipping from the back edge of the blade, so i have a specialist blade...not worried on the cutting side etc its more the prep/adhesive side!

Specific Questions:-

1. Recommended preparation of the bare brick to bring it level with remaining plaster (plaster, cement render etc)

2. Recommended preparation of plaster (sand paint for key?, remove plaster??)

3. Recommended adhesives/grout (i know i have to use a cement modified adhesive..or i think i know this!)

4. Anything else anyone can think of (im an IT nerd by trade not a tiler!)


many thanks in advance!

 

[DHTiling]

Nice post......

Right....

Hack the last painted plaster off......

Then Dot and Dab the walls with 12.5mm plaster board....any wet area's ( shower etc) water proof them with a tanking membrane ( will post video on that soon) and tile straight onto tthe plaster board etc with no skimming.....

Adhesive wise....

The Mapei P9 is top notch for porcelain and Mapei ultra colour plus grout with water drop effect and in over 20 colours will be great as well...

 

[DHTiling]

How to tank walls with membranes...


[yt]pigKorqimGk[/yt]

 

[DHTiling]

Cement based adhesive with good initial adhesion strength and no vertical slip for ceramic tiles.
Applications:
Interior and exterior bonding of ceramic tiles and mosaics of every type on floors, walls and ceilings on conventional substrates (cement renders and screeds, underfloor heating installations, brick walls, blocks walls, gypsum boards).
Also suitable for tile on tile with medium-size tiles (up to 900 cm2) and spot-bonding of insulating materials such as expanded polystyrene, expanded polyurethane, rock and glass wool, Eraclit® (wood-cement panels), sound-deadening panels, etc.
Installation over gypsum based or anhydrite based surfaces is possible after having first applied Primer G,

Fast setting and drying, high performance, anti-efflorescence grout, polymer modified, for joints from 2 to 20 mm. Water-repellent with DropEffect® and antimold with BioBlock® technology.
Applications:
Interior and exterior floor and wall grouting of all types of ceramic tiles (double-fired, single-fired, klinker, porcelain tiles, etc.), terracotta, stone material (natural stone, marble, granite, agglomerates, etc.), glass and marble mosaics. Ensures complete uniformity of colour, does not produce surface efflorescence, dries quickly and therefore floor and wall coverings are ready for use quickly.
BioBlock® technology applied to this product blocks various types of mould from forming and proliferating on the surface of the grout in humid conditions. Also, the use of special hydrophobic additives (DropEffect® technology) gives grouting mortars high water-repellent properties, making them less prone to dirtiness and with excellent durability.
Ideal for grouting exterior façades, balconies, terraces, swimming pools, bathrooms and kitchens. Especially suitable for grouting floors of supermarkets, highway service stations, restaurants, airports and public service grounds.

 

[kickinside]

ok i suspected that would be the answer....only problem is its not really the 'last' of the plaster (its more like 'most' of the plaster.....also the room is quite small and i am fighting for inches in some places....

i didn't mention the tiles are 31kg a box (10 tiles) so approx 20kg per m2....plus gack!

If its required its required so be it, If i can 'get away with it' that would be preferable...the walls are at least flat - opinions?

 

[DHTiling]

You will need to remove the paint.......back to bare wall...But plaster board will support more weight and if you are trying to gain room then the board dabbed might just be less thickness than your render and skim coat..

worth a thought....but deffo get the paint off..

 

[kickinside]

Well i guess it comes down to if its easier to remove the paint....or the plaster!, if its the plaster i will have to get a shufty on as our local tip stops accepting plaster on the 1st april as apparently from then its considered 'hazardous waste'

So they told me as i took the trailer with airing cupboard walls down last weekend!

I think I will definitely loose space boarding, the existing plaster is mostly under 1/2" judging by what I can see where the cupboard walls have come out/tile off/tank bearers etc, in many places i could say < 1/4"!

Still if thats the way to go....so be it i guess (don't much like removing paint either too boring for my liking!)

 

[CJ CERAMICS]

you are best to take back to brick and plasterboard all walls as dave says
this way you can ensure that all the walls are flat and true to give you the best surface poss to tile on to.......nothing worse than tiling on to a (smooth) plaster wall only to find a hump you previously missed usually near the top....porcelain aint cheap and remember she who must be obeyed wont be happy with ya if they aint level. as for adhesive personaly prefer bal products but only cos i cant find mapei in my area.
good luck and keep us posted

 

[Dan]

I have a little project on the go - remodeling the bathroom, i have done some tilling before (kitchen/utility) but this is whole different game....

Bathroom is 1951 build, brick built walls with a mixture of existing surfaces. Mostly 1/2 3/4 inch of original plaster over painted with god alone know what (certainly emulsion figures in there and probably an eggshell too) - plaster is sound as is the paint. Some areas are back to bare brick where hacked out the existing tiles round the bath (they were on a mortar bed that came with them), also some areas of bare brick where walls (airing cupboard) have been removed (were at 90 degrees to existing walls). plaster is alleged to be renovating (?) plaster as this was the 'show house' and they did a 'good job' (living in the house i might argue that point but there you go!)

The walls are to be tilled floor to ceiling (i am intending to fit skirting at he bottom and commence the tilling at circa 75mm above floor level and finish in trim strips circa the same under ceiling level (ceiling inst exactly totally level!)

Shower will be a free standing shower cabin so no problem with tiles being sprayed with water etc.

Tiles are 400*400 9mm porcelain (chosen by she who must be obeyed!), 3mm gaps have been decreed (she thinks the 4mm in the kitchen were too big)

Area to be tiled is approx 17 m2 - mainly straight runs as the toilet will be in a cabinet, the sink is counter top etc...

I have a wet cutter (gantry type overhead unit with water pump) already tried the standard blade on the tiles and its ...well not good, quite a bit of edge chipping from the back edge of the blade, so i have a specialist blade...not worried on the cutting side etc its more the prep/adhesive side!

Specific Questions:-

1. Recommended preparation of the bare brick to bring it level with remaining plaster (plaster, cement render etc)

2. Recommended preparation of plaster (sand paint for key?, remove plaster??)

3. Recommended adhesives/grout (i know i have to use a cement modified adhesive..or i think i know this!)

4. Anything else anyone can think of (im an IT nerd by trade not a tiler!)


many thanks in advance!

Sounds like a big job. Why don't you get a professional in to take a look at it? No offence intended. Sort of just personal market research.

 

[kickinside]

Thanks for all the responses guys - i am going to take your advice and strip to brick and plasterboard.

As to why not get a pro in, well several answers really. Firstly i actually enjoy doing the work myself and the satisfaction of a good job well done. Secondly i can do it area at a time leaving the rest of the room functional, then do another area... ( e.g. two walls where the shower will go leaving bath and sink on other wall functional, then once the shower is in rip the bath and sink out - thus keeping family happy!)

I work with my head all day, like to work with my hands at other times...every year i do something ot learn a new skill - plus i probably down played the kitchen a bit its the same size room with 3 doorways and i tilled that floor to ceiling but admittedly with smaller tiles (about 9"*6") a couple of years ago (hence the wet saw).

My brother in law also used to be cabinet maker and kitchen fitter (and builder by part time inclination) so i do have some experience to call on too!

its just my thing i like doing jobs myself and doing them right!

 

[DHTiling]

Good luck....And maybe some pics of work in progress leading to finished job would be brill.....we love pics on here...

 

[Aztectiler]

Another option instead of the plasterboard is a Hardibacker board which is a cementicious board and with this you will have absoloutly no worries regarding weight restrictions on plasterbord.

A little extra cost but worth every single penny as "In my opinion" Hardibacker board is the perfect substrate to tile onto.

 

[DHTiling]

Plasterboard you can dot & dab onto the brick work but hardi say NO you have to serate the wall and screw and plug as well. this is ok if the wall is flat but if not then it's harder to get the hardi flat...

But you can get other cement based boards that you can dot & dab with rapid set...

 

[kickinside]

Hmmm

The more i read the more confused i become (normal state of affairs - a little knowledge being a dangerous thing). some say cement board, some say foil backed as its a bathroom (but you cant dot and dab foil and i definitely can't afford to loose the depth battening will cost me).

Been looking at it again and i really don't like the idea of getting the paint off (partly as some is almost certainly 1950's and i HATE to think what it contains)
- time to introduce Mr chisel to Mr plaster then introduce Mr 12.5mm (non foil backed so i can dot and dab) board to Mr adhesive! (if it all gets too much Mr air chisel may come into play - its pretty well stuck i think!)

Wish me luck and lets hope no to much comes off the other side of the walls lol!

thanks for the advice guys....live and learn (lets hope i am not about to get too much 'experience'!)

 

[DHTiling]

It will be fine..........good luck and take your time.....it's not a race...

 

[kickinside]

not the last stupid question i am sure....but never done the blob and glue plasterboard trick before (though i have dry lined on batons) ...roughly how much adhesive would you work on per 8'*4' (i.e is it half a 25kg bag per 8*4 or one bag...or 1/10 of a bag?)

see i told you i was new at this!

 

[ern]

Hi DAve, just wandered what cement boards can be dot and dabbed - yet to find one

Ta- Ernie

 

[DHTiling]

Hi DAve, just wandered what cement boards can be dot and dabbed - yet to find one

Ta- Ernie

Wedi....marmox.......aqua panel...........it is best to plug/dowel fix as well....

 

[Jimmy]

Hi, I have just bumped into this thread by accident and just want to give a helping hand with the shower? You say it is a self contained unit . I have fitted few different types over the last couple of years and would advise tiling behind and under it as they never totally watertight (especialy the pre assembled bits) maybe even waterproofing/tanking behind the tiles. Also being very enthusiastic with the Silicon when building it up.

I hope I have not opened a can of worms here and good luck with the project

 

[kickinside]

Hi Jimmy, thanks for the heads up - i was planning on tilling behind it, unfortunately tilling below it isn't an option (long story but basically i need to be able to preserve the ability to access under it occasionally).

I intend to fit it on sectioned varnished ply (marine probably) to make moving it easier and 'just in case' - several tubes of clear Silicon stand at the ready for its assembly (I also intend loosening all the back plate fittings(e.g body jets) from the back plate and applying a bit of sealant round these to attempt to ensure a watertight unit - from your experience where are the hotspots for leakage?

 

[Jimmy]

Hi, you seem quite tuned in if you are already prepared for leakes from the body jets!
The last one I worked on was for a friend who had it fitted by a fitter from the showroom where he bought it from , I ended up taking it all out , taking it apart and "sandwiching"every joint with Silicon . But avoid sealing around the inside of the screen , only seal the outside, as if any water gets into the internal section it fill it up and weep from any week joints(worst case) or smell horid(best case).
All that said you apear to be on top of things and if you fit it on flexible connections you can have a good play around the back while testing it , :hurray:
Hope this sheds some light.

 

[kickinside]

Thanks Jimmy,

I am intending on using flexible connections so it can come out with ease, also i had read about sealing he outside of the screen (but hadn't realized why - though now you say it it makes perfect sense!)

Silicon shall be applied to all joints in quantity as i really HATE leaking fittings!

Many thanks again for the wisdom!

 

[kickinside]

Quick update for you guys (partly by way of thanks!)...

Walls now stripped to bare brick and wire brushed (why is the easy to get at plaster ready to fall off in nice big chunks...but the stuff at the top of the wall resembles sheet amour from the bismark?).

Bagged, tailored to tip (flat tyre on the way - luckily had spare in car - ...much swearing!). Cold tap on sink destroyed (plaster fell on it turning it on...sink full of plaster crud i deployed a little too much force turning it off quickly....tap feed now capped off - to old to have isolator valves, this time the new sink gets them plus check valves as it will havea mixer on it...). Still never mind its going in the skip soon anyway!

Walls to be pva'd this week to seal prior to boarding at the weekend (of the first 50% of room i can get too) and waster/water fittings to shower installed hopefully - may get some tiles on the wall early next week!

I know its a slow (and wrong!) way to do it, but it means we keep a functional bathroom while i do it...and im not in that much of a hurry...

Anyway much nicer than my brother in law who is currently ripping out lath and plaster walls/ceilings - yummy (not!)

 

[kickinside]

Me again - going to get sick of me soon!:yikes:

ok getting all the stuff I need together to do this job and i actually looked at the tiles i have bought:smilewinkgrin:

Allegedly polished porcelain (400*400 20kg per square m, top higly polished, ot glazed i think as it doesn't extend to the sides at all)- from tile giant - got a very good price (i didn't know what i was buying but i knew it was cheap...or maybe not...)😳

Anyway been lurking and reading on here and I guess they should be sealed...but when i look at he tiles (virgin out of the box) they have been 'wiped' with something (if you imagine a car bonnet after you have waxed it and before you buff it up thats similar - you can see the wipe marks in it) its hard as nails, a right git to try and polish off and if you drip water on top of it it beads like it was on oil.....does this sound like they are pre-sealed? Any tips other then a elbow grease on removing the 'haze'

see i told you i was new at this....

 

[Adam Coates]

Me again - going to get sick of me soon!:yikes:

ok getting all the stuff I need together to do this job and i actually looked at the tiles i have bought:smilewinkgrin:

Allegedly polished porcelain (400*400 20kg per square m, top higly polished, ot glazed i think as it doesn't extend to the sides at all)- from tile giant - got a very good price (i didn't know what i was buying but i knew it was cheap...or maybe not...)😳

Anyway been lurking and reading on here and I guess they should be sealed...but when i look at he tiles (virgin out of the box) they have been 'wiped' with something (if you imagine a car bonnet after you have waxed it and before you buff it up thats similar - you can see the wipe marks in it) its hard as nails, a right git to try and polish off and if you drip water on top of it it beads like it was on oil.....does this sound like they are pre-sealed? Any tips other then a elbow grease on removing the 'haze'

see i told you i was new at this....

Hi there,
what was the name of the product you brought. as I might have the solutions for you. if it is a polished porcelain tile they should be sealed but you might want to clean them first. tile giant sell a product called ltp grimex to clean down the surface and ltp mpg sealer which will make them really shiny this is a one off coat and will help keep them clean as they will not smear as much

 

[obobsmith]

Me again - going to get sick of me soon!:yikes:

ok getting all the stuff I need together to do this job and i actually looked at the tiles i have bought:smilewinkgrin:

Allegedly polished porcelain (400*400 20kg per square m, top higly polished, ot glazed i think as it doesn't extend to the sides at all)- from tile giant - got a very good price (i didn't know what i was buying but i knew it was cheap...or maybe not...)😳

Anyway been lurking and reading on here and I guess they should be sealed...but when i look at he tiles (virgin out of the box) they have been 'wiped' with something (if you imagine a car bonnet after you have waxed it and before you buff it up thats similar - you can see the wipe marks in it) its hard as nails, a right git to try and polish off and if you drip water on top of it it beads like it was on oil.....does this sound like they are pre-sealed? Any tips other then a elbow grease on removing the 'haze'

see i told you i was new at this....

Haze (protective film ) needs to be removed with a suitable cleaner, it's also a good idea for you to seal tiles prior to fixing (just in case you dont work perfectly clean) and then after grouting, oh and have fun

 

[kickinside]

Hi Guys,

Sorry no update, been busy taking the walls back, boarding etc (and buying new car and some other stuff)...

I actually got the cleaning/sealing/adhesive (mapei keraquick - why did i not use this when i did the kitchen its wicked!) from tile giant as the tiles came from there and I now have the field tiles on one wall (window in it so not much work) and on half another wall...and thats where the problem started...

Having very care fully set out the first row (baton screwed to the wall- checked for straight and level, tiles spaced with 3mm pegs etc) i put the second row of tiles on - spaced off the bottom row with 3mm pegs - spaced between with 3mm pegs, all the tiles put on the same way up (ie the writing stamped into the back of them downwards in all cases) and the grout lines are running out wider bottom to top!:incazzato:

I was convinced it was me😳...checked everything with the spirit level again (they are beautifully flat - miracle seeing as i got he boards on with a slight dip between the joins) - anyway after tweaking nad not making it any better i left them on as they had set off pretty much and came back with my brother in law tonight...

He looked at it and couldn't work it out either - then he had a bright idea and we put a square on the tiles and measured them and they aint square! They run out approx 1mm wider at one end -not consistently but pretty close! (thanks tile giant!):mad2:

Now as i have a wall pretty much covered and two rows on the long wall its either go on or rip the tiles plus the board and adhesive off (which means redoing plumbing as well....)

We have decided to press ahead anyhow and have scribed the wall with true verticals representing the right edge of each column of the tiles and a are going to work to that taking the lack of squareness out with shims under the pegs on the horizontal grout lines...should be fun!

When i looked at the box's they were made in 2005 so i guess they are load of 'iffy' tiles that have been sitting about waiting for some poor sap to buy them (me)

Anyway lets say i wont be going back to tile giant anytime soon and had I realized earlier they would be getting the whole lot back - the only reason they wont is the rework required to make good the damage that taking them off the wall would cause to the wall!

Anyone know anywhere else to get mapie adhesive cos I will need more and i refuse to give TG any more of my cash on principle (as it seems to me 40*40 tiles should be at least square!)

Anyway guys thanks for all the help and i will keep you updated :8:

 

[faithhealer]

plenty of TG folk on here now, drop then a pm

 

[heatybob]

ummm this post could get interesting:incazzato:

 

[White Room]

You will sometimes get a variation in tile size, 1mm sounds good, I've had up to about 5mm