Mezzanine floor prep

[goz]

Good morning gents , been asked to price a 300m mezzanine floor in a showroom .
38mm chipboard. They have indicated that it will be well supported etc, how would you go about prepping?
Ditra or overboard with hardie or Wedi. Expansion joints obviously.
The building has not been built yet, they are getting prices together.
This is all on the understanding that there is sufficient support in the floor of course

 

[Dumbo]

Quick question . Do you know why they are using 38 mm chip , is it subject to heavy loading .

 

[Qwerty]

Interesting project. Personally I would get all the specs and details together and then approach an adhesive company such as @ISOMAT UK who could give you a full method statement

 

[goz]

Quick question . Do you know why they are using 38 mm chip , is it subject to heavy loading .

It’s a motorcycle showroom, they will have them on the mezzanine aswell as the ground floor so a bit of weight, which makes the prep all the more important.
If it’s a new build surely be better to have a concrete mezzanine?

 

[WetSaw]

We used steel framed mezzanine floors in the motorcycle warehouses I used to work in. As they were only leased it was cheaper and easier to install a steel structure then board it. We just had a company come and measure, manufacture then we put them up.
Never tiled them so rather useless information really!

 

[Bill]

300m mezzanine........ that is some floorspace.

A few problems with the 38mm chipboard for tiling onto.

1, They are using 38mm so that they can have fewer supports (joists, noggins etc) which doesn't help tiling.

2, Covering all that in Hardie will probably lose you the contract, cost wise.

3, Movement will be a big factor and I am not sure even the best crack mat & movement joints will stop the floor from cracking (eventually)

Do the clients understand the difficulties in tiling onto such a structure?

 

[goz]

300m mezzanine........ that is some floorspace.

A few problems with the 38mm chipboard for tiling onto.

1, They are using 38mm so that they can have fewer supports (joists, noggins etc) which doesn't help tiling.

2, Covering all that in Hardie will probably lose you the contract, cost wise.

3, Movement will be a big factor and I am not sure even the best crack mat & movement joints will stop the floor from cracking (eventually)

Do the clients understand the difficulties in tiling onto such a structure?

There’s the option of laying karndean or the like on the mezzanine, still 350m2 on the ground floor to tile do not too fussed if they don’t tile the first floor. My spider sense tingled so I thought I would put up the bat signal on here .

 

[LM]

Advise them to go with LVT imo. To do that correctly in hard tiles would cost way too much in time and money.

 

[Glynn]

Advise them to go with LVT imo. To do that correctly in hard tiles would cost way too much in time and money.

Is that good advice on a tiling forum? We will soon be out of work.

 

[LM]

Is that good advice on a tiling forum? We will soon be out of work.

To answer your question yes imo!
The way I see it is that if the substrate has so many things going against it for tiling and money is an issue, the potential cost of getting it properly ready may mean somebody deciding to take a chance with preparation and a failure could happen. So unless of course they’re prepared to spend whatever is necessary to prepare it properly then I do think it’s better not to tile it.
Sometimes builders/owners will take a chance and tell you not to worry they know the gamble they’re taking and to do the best you can with it. That’s all fine until it goes wrong and then the tiler is to blame no matter what because he should have knew better. You’ll soon be out of work if that happens because your reputation will be trashed.
Of course you’d want to tile it if it’s been spect up and all the proper prep was carried out.

 

[LM]

@Glynn while we’re on the subject what would your advice to the op be for tiling this particular floor?

 

[Glynn]

I have had to walk away from work which I thought would fail. its not easy, but the original thread from Goz said
"This is all on the understanding that there is sufficient support in the floor of course".
Not maybe or if, "that there is"sufficient support. If there is sufficient Support and Goz is happy that the floor has no deflection Tilemaster would be happy to write a specification which would be on the lines of (but I can't name our products on this forum but they are all available).
A Tile Backer Board, a good S1 adhesive, flexible grout and backed by a Tilemaster specification. If Goz wants to get in touch with us we will discuss it with him.

 

[Bill]

But how do we know what sufficient support is without knowing the weight of said motorcycles (or whatever else is put on suspended floors) ..... it is a minefield and one that always bites the tiler, not the manufacturer of fixing materials.

 

[goz]

Thanks for all your input guys, thank you Glynn for saying you would spec it out, appreciate it. I emailed the firm today to say I wouldn’t tile the mezzanine, just to big an area for something to go wrong down the line for me, personally can’t risk it, they agreed that lvt would be the way they go.
On the plus side Glynn there is 350m2 on the ground floor, which happens to be an alpha hemi, so as always will be using anhyfix

 

[Dumbo]

But how do we know what sufficient support is without knowing the weight of said motorcycles (or whatever else is put on suspended floors) ..... it is a minefield and one that always bites the tiler, not the manufacturer of fixing materials.

Surely you would think that in the design of the floor there would of been a structural engineer involved to work out the static loads on the floor and also the dynamic loads as well . I'm sure they didn't just dream it up and hope it would be ok especially in a public place .

 

[Dumbo]

Thanks for all your input guys, thank you Glynn for saying you would spec it out, appreciate it. I emailed the firm today to say I wouldn’t tile the mezzanine, just to big an area for something to go wrong down the line for me, personally can’t risk it, they agreed that lvt would be the way they go.
On the plus side Glynn there is 350m2 on the ground floor, which happens to be an alpha hemi, so as always will be using anhyfix

In your area and with alpha hemi probably a Tom Mayhew screed . Happy days super flat .

 

[Perry]

Have tiled a few in the past with the advice of PCI. Now If I was you I would ask Tilemaster Adhesives.

 

[Glynn]

But how do we know what sufficient support is without knowing the weight of said motorcycles (or whatever else is put on suspended floors) ..... it is a minefield and one that always bites the tiler, not the manufacturer of fixing materials.

Jcrtiling is bang on for me. The weights and dynamics must have been disscussed and built in to the floor structure, and 38mm chipboard is 110% thicher than the 18mm that is installed in most dwellings and we don't question the strength but trust it has been built to Building Regs, so we should trust the builder will build the mezzanine floor to the same Building Regs. I have always tested all my floors with the glass of water test and would do the same on a mezzanine floor and make my decission on the out come of this test. Its a simple test from the Jurassic Period of tiling.

 

[Bill]

I have always tested all my floors with the glass of water test and would do the same on a mezzanine floor and make my decission on the out come of this test. Its a simple test from the Jurassic Period of tiling.

Well, I am old but wasn't around during Dorset's formation, what is your glass of water test then?

 

[Glynn]

Simple. Fill a glass full to the brim, place it in the centre the floor, step back a couple of metres and give a good stamp /jump and if more than a few drops splash out I would then think the floor need attention. On a large floor maybe in a few places. Don't any one post that some people can stamp harder than others or jump higher than others. This is MY test and I beleive in it but it has not been Trade Marked so feel free to use it.

 

[Bill]

How does that test for weighted stress over an elongated period?

Just asking.

 

[Glynn]

It dosen't. Its MY test for suficient support and I would trust the build quailty as jcrtiling posted earlier.

 

[Perry]

Most of the floors I have seen are 300 centres with steel joists. Solid.

 

[goz]

In your area and with alpha hemi probably a Tom Mayhew screed . Happy days super flat .

Yes mate, on a Tom Mayhew screed this week, Burgoyne limestone floor, 80m, saw him pump it in, all brown now as they changed quarry?

 

[Dumbo]

Yes mate, on a Tom Mayhew screed this week, Burgoyne limestone floor, 80m, saw him pump it in, all brown now as they changed quarry?

Apparently had issues with sand supplies but they had three other sands tested and ready to go just in case they had this problem . Still quality work never tiled on a better sceed. Had a potential customer get a surveyor to survey one of screeds because he didn't think it was right , results were a maximum of plus or minus 1 mm over the when lot .

 

[LM]

Apparently had issues with sand supplies but they had three other sands tested and ready to go just in case they had this problem . Still quality work never tiled on a better sceed. Had a potential customer get a surveyor to survey one of screeds because he didn't think it was right , results were a maximum of plus or minus 1 mm over the when lot .

That’s a snooker table to me.

 

[Dumbo]

His work is good .