Tile Forum | America Tile Forum

Welcome to America Tile Forum, the USA Tile Industry. The Tile Association of America.

Discuss Finally lost my cool ! in the Canada area at TilersForums. The USA and UK Tiling Forum (Also now Aus, Canada, ROI, and more)

G

Gazzer

If I ever was cool that is..

For the past year I have been working with my brother since our Dad died. My Dad was a tiler and had some small contracts which I took over after his death. Now I thought it was only fair to share this work with my brother who was struggling with work at the time. So I would treat it as my contracts and employ by brother to do some of the work.
Anyway as the months went by I have been trying to find a way out of this "partnership" ....I never wanted anything permanent , I just thought a helping hand from me to him and vice versa would be good.

Over the following weeks, he would get a bathroom to tile and we would do it together....all very nice you may say. Some work he got was fine, biggish floors that could take two men working together but some work was so fiddly it was plain stupid for two bodies to be on the same job....and dont forget only 50% of the money each !

When we had a bathroom to tile he would do the cuts and I seemed to end up setting out, spreading, marking cuts and tiling....he would mix adhesive and cut tiles. Most of the time he seemed to be watching me but not actually paying attention, for instance...I would be tiling and mark a tile to be cut....I would put the tile down for him to cut but unless I actually told him ., He wouldnt cut it.
It seems as I have to tell him everything to do, and dont think its because he is new to the game. he has been tiling years.
Now my brother is a talker...Big time. As soon as we enter a clients house or on site he jaw is flapping...me , I am setting up and all systems go. Then he is on the phone...I have timed him recently and he spent 30 minutes talking while I was floor tiling.
Over the last year, he has....cut through 2 angle grinder cables, Used my montolit angle grinder wheel an metal trim and its now useless. He has cut through some mosaic with a grinder while the mosaic was on my box for the grinder....Nice gouges through the plastic !.
He has lost an 80mm montolit grinder wheel.
Twice he has snapped the cable to both of my adhesive mixers by letting the cable wrap around the whisk. The last time (last week) it happened and he left the broken cable on the floor still plugged in....this was my 240v mixer. A while back I caught him mixing up and the lead was actually in a bucket of water !

I am not the cleanest work but he takes the P. He actually blocks his own work area , broken tiles everywhere, cables all messed up, Cut tiles just thrown on the floor and causing a trip hazard.
He doesnt seem to care for anyone elses property either. When he has cut a tile he may just lean the off cut against the wall or even if we are inside against wall paper/painted walls.
The site we were working on recently but in separate Ensuites actually have provided small skips for our use. i clean up as I go and when I go out for more tiles I take the off cuts with me into the skip. I was amazed to pop my head around to where he was working to find that the whole floor was covered in broken tiles cardboard and tools.

Anyway to the point ! today we were on the same site and had a kitchen floor and a Cloakroom floor to tile. On arrival at the site, I was out and grabbed scraper and broom and set off to clean the floors. He moved some architraves that were on the floor. After the first clean I went out to where the tiles were and saw him....Talking to his mate on the phone !...I was now boiling over. I went back to the house and carried on but I was really wanting a fight.
I had set out and got lines down to work to by the time he came in. He asked if I was ready for adhesive and I said I was....The adhesive came and as usual It was half mixed and half powder. I mixed it in by hand and started spreading....I could hear him messing about and by the time I had spread the 1st section he said " Oh you have the trowel, I was looking for it !"
So I started tiling and I marked some tiles but he wasnt about so I cut them myself. I had set the cutter so he could carry on but he then moved the set mark. I was so close to exploding by now but held on.
Now as this kitchen was about 17m2 there was enough space for me to have the tile trolley with me, stacked with 4 boxes of tiles so I can push it along with me as I go. So a few minutes later I am carrying on with the 1st row through into the utility room which is the furthest point from the cutter. He then proceeds to take tiles from the trolley that I was using to take back through the house to the cutter even though the tiles are nearer the cutter. Well it may have been a small thing but it made me explode and without saying exactly what I said the short and clean edited version was that I could work faster and with less frustration if I did it alone. At this he said "I wil sit in the van then and you can do it"..." You do that" I replied...

And that is what happened, I tiled the floor and did it all myself in less time than if he was labouring for me and dont forget he is only labouring yet getting 50% of the money !
We drove back in silence and as yet have no idea what the future holds but as I was driving back it dawned on me that even if he didnt work with me on that floor , there was still some grouting to be done from his previous work in another kitchen....why didnt he do that ??

OMG Just read it all back and didnt realise it was that long but as I say I have a slow fuse but once it reaches the end I explode big time !
 
I

Ian

Seems to be a difficult thing, working with family. I have all the patience in the world when it comes to practical work but, zero patience with people. It seems that he has no common sense if he's doing these sorts of things, a labourer should always be one step ahead IMO, not two behind. You're going to have to go your separate ways I think, for your own sanity if nothing else!


Sent via Tapatalk for iPhone
 
G

Gazzer

Bri, you have said exactly my thoughts about how a labourer should be. A few years back I had a lad from here help me on a job, we had never met but worked together as if we were one.
I think we have different goals in life, mine is getting paid to do a nice job and enjoying the job and his is getting paid !
 
A

Aston

neale,
go on your own mate. i know hes your brother but this has been getting you down for a while now mate. just sit down and say that you dont want to fall out with him but its best to go your own way....working with family rarely rarely works..if its bad now, its honestly only going to get worse..just be hard and dont think that your dad would be upset over it, he wouldnt, he'd understand and to be fair, you are getting the rough end of the stick, so you old dad would/will be in your corner of this one mate ;0)

maybe not now but one day it will dawn on your brother that you are a good fella and it will all sort itself out...

ed ;0)



i fall out with my brother alot and i dont care anymore. my brother went to egypt on
 
G

Gazzer

I am on my own Ed, It was just a case of helping him out on a job and then i return the favour....next thing you know its every day.

The one thing I will say is that my brother will admit he is idle....always has been and always will !
 
P

Pebbs

Neale,

For your own sanity, you have to cut your brother loose. Working with mates is one thing, working with members of your family is another. We are far more forgiving of members of our family and their shortcomings, if it was anyone else you know deep in your heart you wouldn't have put up with it for so long. You know even if you sit him down like Ed says theres going to be a fall out, but your a big enough person to take it on the chin. We can't always carry the ones we love, they have to stand up and face the world on their own two feet.

Pick the phone up, and make the call, there will be a lot of people who will say give him another try, the option is yours, but by the sounds of it your at the end of your tether, and that is a terrible feeling.

Lynn
 
H

hillhead

My labourer/apprentice doesn't get 50% of my earnings and he is my son.A helper needs to work in sync with you and ahead most of the time.Phones are a disaster in the hands of helpers.I make them set the phones out.It's not working for you Neale so pull the pin for your own sanity.
 

John Benton

TF
Arms
Reaction score
2,214
I work on my own and will never ever even have a labourer. I've recently turned down a job for an acquaintance for 200m floor and 5 bathrooms in his new house as I wouldn't have been able to turn it round in the time required. I like to work at my own pace and make sure the job is done right.

I get on really well with my brother, we only argue when we're in the same room (not really), but I couldn't imagine working with him.

It's time to break free as Freddie Mercury said.
 

Tony73

TF
Arms
Reaction score
70
My brother used to work for me. Gave him money to come to england, gave him work, more money to pay his debts, gave him my old car (for free) etc. etc......... One day he invited me to his place for a dinner, got drunk, insulted my family, stole my main contractor of 7 years :mad2:. Met few times, but didn't speak for 4 years now.
 
T

The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP

Sorry to hear this Neale, I know where you are coming from, all the little things chip away at you over time. Over the years I have had to bite my lip so many times with people who do not pull their weight.

In showbiz they say never work with children or animals, in tiling it should be never work with close friends or family imo. It is so much harder to voice your feelings to people who are close to you.

This must have been building up inside you for a long time, When I ran the big jobs I changed the team members as often as I changed my socks, If people can't give 100% they do not deserve to be there. This may sound cynical but I go to work to make money, not friends, I have found a few people who I can work with and trust to put in as much effort as I do.

It is a fine thing to hone a team or a partner to the point where no one ever says "what do you want me to do next?" you just know your own role and get on with it. I think you should stay on your own Neale, you can always trust yourself, right or wrong.:thumbsup:
 
W

White Room

I stay on my own for that reason Neale although it is'nt any family involved, if I have a bad day then I suffer the loss.
It might sound selfish but I only have me to concider rather than having someone relying on me.
 
G

Gazzer

Thanks guys, I dont feel any better about though, i do admit while I was working without him this morning I was happy as a pig in smelly stuff...theres a lot of guilt in my head now though.
I guess its just the start of a new chapter.
 

Tony73

TF
Arms
Reaction score
70
your brother should feel guilty, not you Sir Ramic. You did help him, he only had to respect you for that.
 

Dan

Admin
Staff member
Reaction score
5,031
Sorry to hear about this but to be honest I'd have expected it. There will always be a faster, cleaner, more conscious worker. It only works when they are actually labourers because you brush off their **** with them being labourers and put it down to practise and give them guidance etc etc to try and make them better.

When it's your brother who should know a lot better - you're just at a lost cause there's nothing he'll learn from you if he hasn't already in 12 months.

If you're after an easy way out perhaps give him the smallest contract, you keep the rest, and tell him if you get good feedback you'll pass him another WHEN YOU CAN (don't promise anything or give names or dates etc - he wont get good feedback I wouldn't have thought).

I respect you for trying to help. But you can't help them all mate.

You're prolonging the inevitable if you keep working as you are as you will pop again when it bottles up again.
 
G

Gazzer

Nah its all over now and started to get nasty. I think he has had words with the guy we were subbing too this afternoon and a House I was down to tile has now "been put off" I smell a rat but hey ho!.
I am still trying to find out if he has told that contractor that our wages for the house are to be 50/50 as well. This isnt the case as I had completed more m2 and even helped him grout his work.
He arrived on site this morning and all I had to do was finish some bits and pieces. the site agent wanted me to continue in this other house but my brother said the materials werent on site....adhesive etc.
There were floors to do in the house where we were working but my brother had the adhesive and he said it was for him and he would do the floors.
Had a childish txt on the way home because I mentioned to another tiler on site why i was leaving site...he in turn went to my brother and what I actually said was slightly twisted and now its come over different.....I haven't bothered to reply . Then now I see a comment on Facebook he has made.......seems its bothering him more than me.
 

Reply to Finally lost my cool ! in the Canada area at TilersForums.com

Or checkout our tile courses and training forum or the Tile Blog / Latest Blog Posts

Please note that this thread is old so replying to it may not get a response. You'd be best posting a new thread with a good 4 or 5 word title.
This website is hosted and managed by www.untoldmedia.co.uk. Creating content since 2001.
Tile Contractor Forum. The useful tile contractor website.

UK Tiling Forum Stats

Threads
67,367
Messages
881,195
Members
9,530
Latest member
Apatel
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks