Bathroom referb, what materials? - Tile Advice

[Pegasus829]

Having refitted our kitchen previously I was coaxed into using an all in one adhesive and grout... Never again!

This weekend I will be gutting our small bathroom, fitting a new suite and replacing the tiles all on a tight budget. We have purchased porcelain 600x300 tiles which are wall and floor tiles. Whilst we are selling up soon for a larger house I'm not the kind of person to do half a job and run. We've had a great time in this relatively trouble free first home and I want the next owners to do the same.

So the advice needed is:

1) Is it worth removing the wall boards around the shower and fitting something like Hardie boards or just remove the old tiles and replace with new? Haven't removed the old tiles yet so don't know state it's in.

2) Any recommendations on adhesives? They are large and heavy tiles.

3) The current flooring is rather flexible chipboard (yes that's right...). Is it best to replace with 18mm marine ply or can it be of a lesser grade?

4) What adhesive should I use between the boards and say Hardie boards on the floor?

5) Having seen the horrors of adhesive and grout combo which grout would you recommend for the walls and then the floor? The wife wants white for the beige'ish slightly matt tiles so I'm thinking sealing is the way forward!

Many thanks in advance for the sound advice, the egit in the 'large DIY store' wasn't much help and ended up advising I use Unibond Adhesive and Grout Anti Mould and that the flexing chipboard floor would be fine...

 

[lukeb]

Q1- replaceboards(plasterboards?) use backer board
Q2-Keraflex on walls(longer pot life) Keraquick (floors) by Mapei
Q3-floor MUST BE deflection free before you even put cement board REGARDLESS so get it sorted first.
Q4- any flexible adhesive(its only for filling cavity between subfloor and cement board)not for fixing purpose so screw fix Backer board
Q5-all grout flexible Bal Or Mapei

And regarding your chpboard NO it won`t be fine flexing-:yikes:

 

[steve187]

If you do replace the chipboard, put some extra noggins in between the joists.

 

[PuPPeT]

Q1-yeah i agree.use a backer board
Q2-use a 1 part flexi or a polermer modified adhesive if they are porcelain.if they are porcelain DONT USE ready mix.
Q3-yes its best to replace the chipboard with a 18mm marine ply but is the ply being screwed to the joists or are u screwing it on top of the chip board.if u are going to the joists then yes 18mm marine ply.if ur going on top then id use a 8mm-9mm at the least and screw it every 6 inches.some people use 6mm ply but just to be on the safe side id use 8 or 9.
Q4-again id use a 1 part flexi on both wall and floor and depending on how much movement and bounce u have on ur floor.ive plyed some floors and and screwed it every 6 inches they still bounced like hell which ment useing a 2 part flexi (messy stuff) but more tolerant to movement.#
Q5-every tiler has his opinions on adhesive and grouts but id say BAL u cant go wrong or go for Weber

most tile places will help you out on wat u need dont got to a DIY place there a rip off

goodluck and i hope all goes well.

 

[andy8758]

Pegasus - Just a footnote to the advice above. The shower walls must be waterproof.

Tile backer board is generally only water-resistant (i.e. water soaks into material, and evaporates without damaging structure of board) - although some of the boards are waterproof (stops water entering structure of wall). Either fit waterproof backer boards (and you must fully seal joints and screw holes with their recommended waterproof tape/sealant) or overcoat the backer board with a proprietory waterproofing system (e.g. Mapei Mepgum or BAL WP1 - other manufacturers also supply waterproofing systems - can also be bought in a kit form for smaller shower installations).

Standard tile adhesive and grout is not waterproof EVEN IF THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT IS!! Only epoxy based adhesives and grouts are waterproof - and they cost around 3 times as much as standard products.

The effect of not waterproofing the shower wall is that when water seeps into the wall, it starts to seep into bricks, blocks, plaster, and ultimtaely can be costly to repair (expect to repair downstairs ceilings at the very least).

So talk it through with the retailer supplying - advice from tile specialists is generally excellent - but dont get advice from DIY stores like Homebase, B & Q and Wickes - it is invariably "misguided" if not just plain wrong.

 

[Pegasus829]

Many thanks for the responses so far. Guess I now realise just how much profit DIY warehouses make. The BAL products work out to the same price!

Going with the BAL Single Part Flex in white for the adhesive but I have a query about the grout. The wife wants white grout on the floor too... Should I try and convince her to go with ivory rather? The tile is a B&Q Colours Tivoli Natural tile which is kind of beige itself. I do like the white grout as the in-laws have the same style but wondering about its ability to stay clean in a bathroom (Question 5 above). Was thinking BAL Superflex which only come sin beige or darker.

 

[Andy Allen]

white or ivory will be hard to keep clean, but you can get sealers to seal the grout, you can use any bal floor grout and just add GT1 admix to it to make it flexable..

 

[AliGage]

BAL micromax is available in white. Similar to the microflex wide joint (2-20mm). Downside it's rapidsetting.

 

[macten]

I personally wouldn't feel it essential to tank a regular shower area constructed of backer board.

 

[andy8758]

I personally wouldn't feel it essential to tank a regular shower area constructed of backer board.

It does depend on the shower useage and the type of tile and grout. More water coverage and more porosity will mean that the backer board may never dry out. That is not a problem for the board, but the water seepage will go beyond the backer board if it gets very wet. Thats why I routinely recommend tanking as well as tile backer board - the extra outlay is small compared to the potential for damage caused elsewhere in the house.

 

[Pegasus829]

So I started ripping the old tiles off as well as the plaster board. Absolutely no water proofing at all and it was just standard gypsom board that was used everywhere else in the house. That would explain the mould that started to appear on the bedroom carpet a couple of years back! (The room is a bath with a mixer tap shower head so no wet room).

I'm going to be putting up a waterproof membrane over the stud work and then using Hardieboards over it. This is fine for the stud work however one of the sides is dry wall. It looks like something similar to NoNails was used to attach the previous plaster board to the wall. (See the following images)

The average (and I mean average...) depth of the adhesive is around 10mm and then around 15mm of plaster board stuck to it totalling 25mm of stuff stuck to the wall.

Should I spend what looks like half a day to hack all this off risking taking some of the blocks with it? My alternative is to lose 25mm of wall space, make a framework and attach it to the blocks and lay the new board sover the top (with membrane before hand). I think I can afford to lose the space at the opposite end of the bath as there is around a 25mm gap at the opposite end before the tiles etc.

Given your superior expertese which would you choose to do if you came across this problem?
(For those who notice the mould in the insulation I'm replacing all of the insulation! Oh and the suite is coming out tomorrow morning once the wife has moved to a friends for the week :yes:

 

[Paul]

How is this project going ?

 

[Perry]

Pegasus - Just a footnote to the advice above. The shower walls must be waterproof.

Tile backer board is generally only water-resistant (i.e. water soaks into material, and evaporates without damaging structure of board) - although some of the boards are waterproof (stops water entering structure of wall). Either fit waterproof backer boards (and you must fully seal joints and screw holes with their recommended waterproof tape/sealant) or overcoat the backer board with a proprietory waterproofing system (e.g. Mapei Mepgum or BAL WP1 - other manufacturers also supply waterproofing systems - can also be bought in a kit form for smaller shower installations).

Standard tile adhesive and grout is not waterproof EVEN IF THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT IS!! Only epoxy based adhesives and grouts are waterproof - and they cost around 3 times as much as standard products.

The effect of not waterproofing the shower wall is that when water seeps into the wall, it starts to seep into bricks, blocks, plaster, and ultimtaely can be costly to repair (expect to repair downstairs ceilings at the very least).

So talk it through with the retailer supplying - advice from tile specialists is generally excellent - but dont get advice from DIY stores like Homebase, B & Q and Wickes - it is invariably "misguided" if not just plain wrong.[/QUOTE


Now I think you are referring to cement board that is water resistant like hardi aqua board I always refer backer board as wedi or marmox which is waterproof lol