Licencing how would you expect to get one

[jay]

Just out of interest if you had to have a licence to tile in the UK,how would you be assesed ,

or in other words what would you have to do to get your ticket

Just interested in your views

What do you think

 

[Del W]

Theres already a type of licence for site work,but its not enforced,CSCS card.and I dont mean just the H&S part.Ive seen all types of trades(including sparks & gas fitters) at inductions show a bit of paper that says theyve passed the H&S test,its a 10 minute multiple choice, but dont have the card to say they have been assessed & can do their job correctly.Started out as a good idea but not enforced.

 

[nybor62]

i have been doing site work for many years, and have only had to produce my cscs card 2 or 3 times,
what i think might be a good idea for the the domestic side is some kind of certificate
which you give to the customer upon completion , just to say that your tiling was carried out by a qualified tiler, how this would work , i dont know

 

[jay]

But what would you need to show of your ability screeding leveling ect

 

[bobbynz]

Are you talking about a time served tiler who needs to be certified according to new regulations?

 

[jay]

Are you talking about a time served tiler who needs to be certified according to new regulations?

mainly in general time served or newbie what do you consider would be the best way to asses

 

[bobbynz]

I made inquiries about this a couple of months ago and our building trades training and certifiers offered me a customised short course to determine my knowledge and required contacts of jobs recently completed. It would cost me about $380 plus membership of $450. They knew I was off the tools so it was really just going through the exercise of evaluating my experience and knowledge together with actual jobs completed.
BCITO is the main organisation that provides apprenticeship for all our main trades.
New regulations mean it would take you 4 years to complete if you were a noob.
There was a short course but that was canned this year. About time I say.The building trades will be getting a shake up starting this month with only certified builders to carry out structural work in homes now. And I've heard that Tiling will go the same way in the next 18 months.

 

[jay]

Thats more like it Bobbynz

the question is if UK went licensed
1 would you expect to pull a licence out of a Corn flakes packet

2 or do a test of some sort physical or written

your opinions and what type of testing

 

[The D]

some of us have already got qualifications so to be honest I would not expect to have to do a lot in that respect but at the end of the day I am a tiler and I will do whatever I have to do to carry on making my living.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

A practical test as well as a theory/ technical exam for me. Prep work, understanding varying substrates, expansion etc. the more involved the test the better.

 

[Stewart]

Will paste it from my computer so it works....

 

[Ian]

I remember reading that Stewart. You might need to edit the post, there are a few errors in it, probably from pasting from your phone.

 

[Ian]

Written and practical exams would both be necessary IMO, to prove that the person had the technical knowledge and also the ability to put that knowledge into practice. That's why the driving theory test was introduces 15 years ago, loads of people could drive a car but had no idea how to read the road signs or manage the themselves and their vehicles out on the open road, tiling is a little like this, in that there are loads of people who can stick tiles to walls and floors but, don't know a great deal about the other 90% of the job, the theory, safe working practices and correct installation materials/processes.

 

[andy8758]

Nothing wrong with professionalism in a trade, and the opportunity for trade professionals to gain qualifications if they wish to develop their skills. The NVQ system already provides some qualification, and a measure of knowledge and (probably) ability within that trade. No doubt tiling would benefit from a more structured system - IMO the NVQ does not prove ability to tile.

Licensing is politics. It has absolutely no benefit for professionals. It does not improve your skilll, does not increase your income, and it is simply a means for the Government to further interfere in our lives. If you believe the political bull that accompanies "licensing" it is about "professionalising" a trade. If you believe that then look at the CSCS system, Gas Safe and Part P electricians. It does nothing to stop the cowboys, the weekend tradesmen, the semi-retirees, the immigrating tradesmen. That still exists in all the so called "licensed" professions - including plumbing. And do you really want to add £3000 of your hard earned money to someones "licensing" scheme every 2 years?

Give vent to your frustrations about people doing unprofessional tiling work by all means. But dont invite the Government to meddle in your trade. You wont like it when they have finished - no one ever does!

 

[Ian]

Most people are aware of the necessary qualifications needed to have electrical and gas work done in their homes, so no one in their right mind would let someone do this type of work who didn't have the right certificates. Having a licence is not just about protecting our trade, but also protecting the general public from inferior workmanship. I for one would be more than happy to pay for a licence to offer even more reassurance to my customers, it would be an investment that could only benefit the trade and the individual businesses.

 

[White Room]

Then the most difficult part of this is letting the general public know about it, which could be the toughest call of all...

 

[andy8758]

Most people are aware of the necessary qualifications needed to have electrical and gas work done in their homes, so no one in their right mind would let someone do this type of work who didn't have the right certificates. Having a licence is not just about protecting our trade, but also protecting the general public from inferior workmanship. I for one would be more than happy to pay for a licence to offer even more reassurance to my customers, it would be an investment that could only benefit the trade and the individual businesses.

I am sorry Bri - that reads like the last Conservative/Labour/LibDem manifesto.

Gas Safe does not protect the public - the daughter of the publisher of Future Publishing was killed by carbon monoxide poisoning - a plumber is currently in court on this case. Part P was a licence to provide qualifications to people who have not completed a full electrical training course. We already have the posts here about the CSCS fiasco.

I appreciate your desire to root out the people who complete sub standard work - but licensing will not do that. Its like comparing the theory of Karl Marx with the reality of Stalins Russia - noble theories that get corrupted in practice.

Steer well clear of any licensing scheme introduced by this or any other Government - and please dont encourage them.

 

[Ian]

I am sorry Bri - that reads like the last Conservative/Labour/LibDem manifesto.

Gas Safe does not protect the public - the daughter of the publisher of Future Publishing was killed by carbon monoxide poisoning - a plumber is currently in court on this case. Part P was a licence to provide qualifications to people who have not completed a full electrical training course. We already have the posts here about the CSCS fiasco.

I appreciate your desire to root out the people who complete sub standard work - but licensing will not do that. Its like comparing the theory of Karl Marx with the reality of Stalins Russia - noble theories that get corrupted in practice.

Steer well clear of any licensing scheme introduced by this or any other Government - and please dont encourage them.

So what's the answer? There are always going to be isolated incidents with regards to gas/electrical deaths, to just let this poor workmanship go on and on is ridiculous, customers need some sort of reassurance. Granted, there will be the odd few that slip through the net but, if people are made aware that tiling is not just a glorified DIY job, they can have work done knowing they will be receiving a quality job that will last. This license/certificate does not necessarily have to cost big money.

 

[bobbynz]

Like I said before, enforcement and penalties can motivate a client to do what they can to ensure registered tradesmen only work in their homes. At some point of the project all parties must play their part. Tradesmen is registered, Client checks license and Council checks and approves project and signs off when client presents trademan's license details.
It works in the US why not in the UK ???

 

[nybor62]

maybe its upto the clients to make sure the right people are working on there projects
im talking commercial here, when we did the marks and spencers jobs
we had to go to pitt training centre for a full day , to be asessed ,as to weather we could do the job , we were then granted a card by fita , other wise m&s would not let you on the job,

 

[jay]

some of us have already got qualifications so to be honest I would not expect to have to do a lot in that respect but at the end of the day I am a tiler and I will do whatever I have to do to carry on making my living.

So long as it doesn't cause harm to the general public i cant see a problem with that

 

[The D]

So long as it doesn't cause harm to the general public i cant see a problem with that

Not sure you got me jay I am saying I have already put myself out to obtain my trade qualifications and if I have to put myself out to obtain a licence I am willing to do that.

 

[jay]

Sorry misunderstood your post my mistake

 

[Rich]

How about looking at it from a different side, I can see what Andy is saying. I have always wished that they would bring out something like this as I am yet to find a "tiler" round here that isnt a builder/chipy/plumber or has recently been made redundant and bought himself a cutter. But what if this is not the route to take, the government may well start something like this but the chances are they are going to charge a fortune and then not enforce it. I dont think that the problem here is the commercial side of things, more the public.

So, what if they were to make it easier to punish the cowboys? There is a big firm round here that have been going for years and have done tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage to somebody's house (wet room). I went in to price to put it right and told them to get the tiler back, she did and they gave her a quote to put it right!! I asked her why she wasnt going to chase them and she just said "I have looked into it but it would cost me more to chase them through the courts then I would ever get out of them"....

....Where is the incentive to do the job properly when you can make more money buy doing it quick/wrong and never getting any come backs?

I have seen similar countless times and I think there should be an easier way for the customers to get the bad work put right.

 

[jay]

Or another take on it.Say the tiler is out of work so he straps on a nail bag and goes building for a change .Whats stopping him ////////

 

[Rich]

I dont see any problem with that, or a plumber/chipy/builder/delivery driver doing tiling but there has to be something in place as an incentive to look into what your doing before hand. If I decided to do a bit of building and the roof caved in, I would expect to be in serious trouble but when an plasterer tiles a wetroom onto 6mm ply with tub from B&Q and the ceiling comes down thats fine and heis long gone and has been paid??

How does that make sense?

 

[jay]

so are builders registered or licensed over there

 

[bobbynz]

I dont see any problem with that, or a plumber/chipy/builder/delivery driver doing tiling but there has to be something in place as an incentive to look into what your doing before hand. If I decided to do a bit of building and the roof caved in, I would expect to be in serious trouble but when an plasterer tiles a wetroom onto 6mm ply with tub from B&Q and the ceiling comes down thats fine and heis long gone and has been paid??

How does that make sense?

If the industry is licensed you would have to be a dummy to get an unregistered tiler or any other unregistered tradesman. The public have to take some responsibility if there is a choice of registered or unregistered.
You might want to go cheap but for goodness sakes get a cheap registered tradie.
Over here if your work has contibuted to a major problem and the jobs less than 10 years, you will be prosecuted. If you are registered then its really easy to track you down. Incentive to do the job properly?....maybe, better than no accountability.
If and when regulated trades are established the public must be informed of any changes in the building codes. We just had TV coverage of certain changes in our building code just last week. With the internet, its not difficult to educate yourself either.
Small claims court over here is not that expensive, I really think the real reason not to use the courts is they dont like confrontation and being uncomfortable with the whole thing, so they will just rather start again, doesn't make sense but some people just dont like stirring things up.
Anyway those are my thoughts for what theyr'e worth:incazzato:

 

[The D]

so are builders registered or licensed over there

NO :mad2:

 

[jay]

NO :mad2:

You are kidding right.any joe blow of the streets can build a house

 

[Stewart]

You are kidding right.any joe blow of the streets can build a house

It's does still have to pass building control!


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