Tiles de-bonding from new house

[Boggs]

Can you post a few pictures of the tile that was lifted, the back of it and the subfloor where the tile was lifted from.

It will help us to offer further advise on maybe why it has failed.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

If it’s a new build would it not be covered in their National House Builders insurance?

 

[Dumbo]

If it’s a new build would it not be covered in their National House Builders insurance?

You would think so. But they don't seem to cover much only things like foundations .

 

[Ajax123]

If I could find an investigator would be ideal!

Call Dr Neil Beningfield of Beningfield Associates. HE is completely independent and a very experienced expert in all things floor related. He will be able to advise and if required visit and report.

Neil Beningfield - https://www.beningfield.com/

 

[Balloo]

I really am sorry to hear of such a mess this has been for you, its a lot of money wasted and unfortunately as always everyone runs for the hills when it's the blame game.
I can tell you from very unfortunate experience that in Northern Ireland the manufacturer Larsen is based, and over the past ten years there sales in Ireland have really diminished and that's why they moved to mainland UK to improve sales and also because nobody over there has had the misfortune to deal with there rubbish products.
Most of the screed companies in Ireland refuse to stand over there guarantee if larsen material has been used for tile installations.
One story of a tiler was he had to use bal APD primer on half the floor because the supplier of Larsen pink acrylic primer didn't send enough and sure as hell burns that's the only section that came loose.

 

[Just Rizzle]

not an adhesive ive used read so many reports on its failings and was talking to a guy who had massive failure using the stuff which was supplied by his client.

 

[Just Rizzle]

If it’s a new build would it not be covered in their National House Builders insurance?

come on get real you know as well as most the n h bc insurance isnt worth the paper its printed on

 

[Time's Ran Out]

come on get real you know as well as most the n h bc insurance isnt worth the paper its printed on

You know that for a fact or is that also something you’ve heard from a guy?

 

[Just Rizzle]

You know that for a fact or is that also something you’ve heard from a guy?

theres so many clauses in there contracts like any insurance policy its always in the favour of the insurer so they make a profit .alot of the time its past back to the builder. especially if tiles debond .
how many of you guys do method statements to back up your work.

 

[Dumbo]

theres so many clauses in there contracts like any insurance policy its always in the favour of the insurer so they make a profit .alot of the time its past back to the builder. especially if tiles debond .
how many of you guys do method statements to back up your work.

Things like foundations the NHBC guy wants to see before they are poured or if they don't see them they rely on the fact that the building control guy has signed them off but they are not poured without being signed off . That doesn't happen with tiling so why would they insure it when they have no control over quality or spec .

 

[Tileadvice]

I really am sorry to hear of such a mess this has been for you, its a lot of money wasted and unfortunately as always everyone runs for the hills when it's the blame game.
I can tell you from very unfortunate experience that in Northern Ireland the manufacturer Larsen is based, and over the past ten years there sales in Ireland have really diminished and that's why they moved to mainland UK to improve sales and also because nobody over there has had the misfortune to deal with there rubbish products.
Most of the screed companies in Ireland refuse to stand over there guarantee if larsen material has been used for tile installations.
One story of a tiler was he had to use bal APD primer on half the floor because the supplier of Larsen pink acrylic primer didn't send enough and sure as hell burns that's the only section that came loose.

What was the outcome for that debonding issue? Were larsens notifed and what was their response.

 

[Anthony]

Hi there.

Has any seen an issue with tiles that de_bonded or became loose?
We moved into a new build. Floor base was not powerfloated (which is better for tiling). Tiler used Larsen Primer, & Larsen flexible rapid adhesive to tile ground floor with 75x75 porcelain tiles. 6weeks later we could hear a hollow sound..from every tile. We called the builder and tiler, they removed a tile to see underneath. The adhesive was stuck to the tile, and primer to the adhesive so none to the ground...is this normal? Also there was a strong Solvent smell when we lifted the tile! Has anyone seen this? The tiler seem suprised. Would the Primer used have contributed to the issue...can it be contaminated or "go-off"??

We are now in a situation where the builder and tiler think they are not at fault, either do Larsens. But one thing for certain it is not me!

Can anyone help??

Sounds

 

[Anthony]

Hi there.

Has any seen an issue with tiles that de_bonded or became loose?
We moved into a new build. Floor base was not powerfloated (which is better for tiling). Tiler used Larsen Primer, & Larsen flexible rapid adhesive to tile ground floor with 75x75 porcelain tiles. 6weeks later we could hear a hollow sound..from every tile. We called the builder and tiler, they removed a tile to see underneath. The adhesive was stuck to the tile, and primer to the adhesive so none to the ground...is this normal? Also there was a strong Solvent smell when we lifted the tile! Has anyone seen this? The tiler seem suprised. Would the Primer used have contributed to the issue...can it be contaminated or "go-off"??

We are now in a situation where the builder and tiler think they are not at fault, either do Larsens. But one thing for certain it is not me!

Can anyone

 

[Anthony]

Sounds like calcium sulphide screed. A gypsum based adhesive required. Cement based adhesive reacts with it causing debonding. Also was the floor sanded? There’s a mineral that forms on top that needs to be sanded off. A lot of adhesive manufacturers say you can use cement based adhesive but needs to be primed twice diluted first. Neat for the second. But I’m not convinced. I use UltraTileFix csa

 

[Ajax123]

[QUOTE="Anthony, post: 923819, member: 51465"]Sounds like calcium sulphide screed. A gypsum based adhesive required. Cement based adhesive reacts with it causing debonding. Also was the floor sanded? There’s a mineral that forms on top that needs to be sanded off. A lot of adhesive manufacturers say you can use cement based adhesive but needs to be primed twice diluted first. Neat for the second. But I’m not convinced. I use UltraTileFix csa[/QUOTE]

No it doesn't....

 

[Tile Shop]

Just out of interest, are there any of the Larsens Primer bottles knocking about or do you know exactly which one was used? Are we 100% sure it was acrylic? I'm just wondering if the smell may have been Acetic Acid/Acetone from a reaction with PVA and the adhesive?

If the Larsens PVA Bond was used as a primer, it could also explain the adhesive not bonding.