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Tile Shading issue advise
Discuss Tile Shading issue advise in the Canada Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com.
It must be the language barrier ants, what you have wrote means 'inspect every tile' , then you say 'no need to inspect every tile', so which one do us mere mortals have to understand .
stop moving the goalposts and we won't get headaches my love
T
Tile Shop
Most of the Versace stone effect are shaded to replicate natural stone..... are you 100% sure its not just the natural variation?
Everyone is very quick to jump down the suppliers throat. Is it honestly a problem they have caused, or was it the factory? From the other side of the desk as a supplier, its very difficult. Of course we want the customer to be happy and will do everything we can to help them and the tiler.
This is the bit where you all shout "who the f*** reads terms and conditions???" but they are there for a reason. To advise the customer and fixer not to just bang 'em down, but to check. But most of you have been tiling long enough to know whats required before fixing. This is not the supplier covering their arse, its the tile industry standard across the board for all manufacturers and suppliers alike. Agree or not, heres an example of our wordings for 4 of our conditions:
"Any fault, quality or shading issue with the tiles supplied will remain the responsibility of the manufacturer. The Company will accept no responsibility for further or subsequent loss or expense, if the tiles are faulty, or not to the acceptance of the Buyer. Any such issues will be passed to the manufacturers, whereby any claims will become solely the manufacturer’s liability, disclaimers or notes printed on boxes or packaging will become the responsibility of the Buyer to read and accept, prior to use or fixing.
Each tile should be carefully examined individually before fixing. Fixing of the tiles constitutes acceptance of their quality. ##### ### ###### accepts no liability for faulty installation work, or the quality or correctness of the tiles once fixed. As far as the law permits, liability is limited to replacement of faulty items or a refund of their cost and excludes any consequential loss, including the cost of removal and refixing.
The Company can only be held responsible for any failure against products supplied, to the extent that the manufacturer of such products is prepared to guarantee the same.
IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CUSTOMER AND THEIR TILE FIXER TO ENSURE THAT THE GOODS ORDERED, ARE SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND SUITABLE FOR THE PURPOSE REQUIRED. INCLUDING COLOUR, SHADE, AND GAUGE. NO CLAIMS CAN BE ACCEPTED ONCE THE MATERIALS ARE USED. GOODS ARE SUPPLIED ON THE STRICT UNDERSTANDING THAT BRITISH STANDARDS RELATING TO TILE FIXING ARE FOLLOWED."
Whether you like them or not, you find me a supplier that DOESN'T have this or similar in their conditions.
For the supplier it is a hard position to be in. They have done the same and checked the batch numbers before dispatch. They all match. What more do you want them to do? Do you want them to open every box, loose lay them all together and check every tile before they send them out? Would you accept delivery of a pallet full of loose tiles with no packaging that turns up a day late because that's what the supplier needed to do for every order they ship out? Would you buy a box of cornflakes without the box because Asda had to check each one before they gave them to you? Course you wouldn't. But that is the only other way that this issue "might" have been noticed before the customer receiving them.
This fault (if its a fault and not just natural shading) lies with the manufacturer and their QC processes. BUT your supplier should back you up, be on your side and fight your case with the factory until you get a reasonable resolution. whether its compensation, new tiles, whatever.
I've had 5 similar cases (not necessarily about shading) in the past 2 months. No fault of ours, and no fault of the tilers/customers. I was able to argue the claims with the factories and was able to get them to accept liability for 4 of them. We did the refunds for the tilers lost time, the refixing costs, the factory in turn gave us a rebate for that total value, sent out a new good batch. It took a week or two to sort them out but in the end, everyone was happy.
Everyone is very quick to jump down the suppliers throat. Is it honestly a problem they have caused, or was it the factory? From the other side of the desk as a supplier, its very difficult. Of course we want the customer to be happy and will do everything we can to help them and the tiler.
This is the bit where you all shout "who the f*** reads terms and conditions???" but they are there for a reason. To advise the customer and fixer not to just bang 'em down, but to check. But most of you have been tiling long enough to know whats required before fixing. This is not the supplier covering their arse, its the tile industry standard across the board for all manufacturers and suppliers alike. Agree or not, heres an example of our wordings for 4 of our conditions:
"Any fault, quality or shading issue with the tiles supplied will remain the responsibility of the manufacturer. The Company will accept no responsibility for further or subsequent loss or expense, if the tiles are faulty, or not to the acceptance of the Buyer. Any such issues will be passed to the manufacturers, whereby any claims will become solely the manufacturer’s liability, disclaimers or notes printed on boxes or packaging will become the responsibility of the Buyer to read and accept, prior to use or fixing.
Each tile should be carefully examined individually before fixing. Fixing of the tiles constitutes acceptance of their quality. ##### ### ###### accepts no liability for faulty installation work, or the quality or correctness of the tiles once fixed. As far as the law permits, liability is limited to replacement of faulty items or a refund of their cost and excludes any consequential loss, including the cost of removal and refixing.
The Company can only be held responsible for any failure against products supplied, to the extent that the manufacturer of such products is prepared to guarantee the same.
IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CUSTOMER AND THEIR TILE FIXER TO ENSURE THAT THE GOODS ORDERED, ARE SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND SUITABLE FOR THE PURPOSE REQUIRED. INCLUDING COLOUR, SHADE, AND GAUGE. NO CLAIMS CAN BE ACCEPTED ONCE THE MATERIALS ARE USED. GOODS ARE SUPPLIED ON THE STRICT UNDERSTANDING THAT BRITISH STANDARDS RELATING TO TILE FIXING ARE FOLLOWED."
Whether you like them or not, you find me a supplier that DOESN'T have this or similar in their conditions.
For the supplier it is a hard position to be in. They have done the same and checked the batch numbers before dispatch. They all match. What more do you want them to do? Do you want them to open every box, loose lay them all together and check every tile before they send them out? Would you accept delivery of a pallet full of loose tiles with no packaging that turns up a day late because that's what the supplier needed to do for every order they ship out? Would you buy a box of cornflakes without the box because Asda had to check each one before they gave them to you? Course you wouldn't. But that is the only other way that this issue "might" have been noticed before the customer receiving them.
This fault (if its a fault and not just natural shading) lies with the manufacturer and their QC processes. BUT your supplier should back you up, be on your side and fight your case with the factory until you get a reasonable resolution. whether its compensation, new tiles, whatever.
I've had 5 similar cases (not necessarily about shading) in the past 2 months. No fault of ours, and no fault of the tilers/customers. I was able to argue the claims with the factories and was able to get them to accept liability for 4 of them. We did the refunds for the tilers lost time, the refixing costs, the factory in turn gave us a rebate for that total value, sent out a new good batch. It took a week or two to sort them out but in the end, everyone was happy.
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D
Dumbo
She might not want to get caught up but I think the company could just refuse to deal with you as you have no contract with them.
This happened to me in famous hotel owners ensuite luckily a noticed after putting 2nd stretch round the bath phoned them to come and see it before I carried on .when they arrived asked me strip it checked all shades and batch numbers on boxes where the same. They contacted the supplier who the following day sent 2 and a half pallets of the same tile and told the owners to open every box and use what ever tiles they wanted for their bathroom .a bit of overkill for a 30 metre bathroom but money talks
I
Italy
between yesterday and today, I could not find the tile pattern.
now I've found, it is not polished, but lappato glossy.
the type of tile, looks normal different tones, perhaps was enough better mixing.
Pavimenti Versace, Ceramiche Versace, Ceramiche design, Ceramiche bagno Versace - http://www.versace-tiles.com/collezioni/marble/
Therefore, versace, you are doing a favor to send other tiles.
when I get a product that I have ever seen, and I see different shades, I immediately consult the internet, to see if catalogs, have the same problem.
ps. As always the Italian idiot was right, and of course it's hard to admit.
now I've found, it is not polished, but lappato glossy.
the type of tile, looks normal different tones, perhaps was enough better mixing.
Pavimenti Versace, Ceramiche Versace, Ceramiche design, Ceramiche bagno Versace - http://www.versace-tiles.com/collezioni/marble/
Therefore, versace, you are doing a favor to send other tiles.
when I get a product that I have ever seen, and I see different shades, I immediately consult the internet, to see if catalogs, have the same problem.
ps. As always the Italian idiot was right, and of course it's hard to admit.
Suppliers will say and do anything to shift the blame . Clearly not your fault , job was done in a professional manner .
I am fed up to the back teeth of suppliers wriggling and squirming when they balls it up ! They can afford to rectify the problem , yet try and make the little man pay for their mistakes . DISRACEFUL!!
I am fed up to the back teeth of suppliers wriggling and squirming when they balls it up ! They can afford to rectify the problem , yet try and make the little man pay for their mistakes . DISRACEFUL!!
W
WetSaw
Initiate pedantic mode
As in Italian belonging to him or did you mean you're ( you are ) Italian?
T
Tile Shop
See what i mean..... always the suppliers fault. Again, if you want the supplier to do all the checking fot you, you're telling me you'd take delivery of a pallet of loose tiles?
Shading is inherent in ceramic and porcelain manufacture. You know this but what? Its not your problem???
Yeah, never the tilers fault is it. His job is to put them down and blame someone else when it goes wrong because he couldn't be arsed to do what it says on the box, what it says in british standards, what it says in the suppliers t&c's, whats common knowledge to most tilers. What makes you so special these rules don't apply to you?
Why would the supplier know any different if the batch numbers match? If you wanna fix 'em without checking, fine. But don't always expect a supplier to bail you out if you haven't followed tiling 101.
Ask us to help you out, before it becomes a problem, not after you realise you've been a special kind of dumbass!
Does no-one loose lay tiles anymore?
Rant over.
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So Paul , the suppliers should just buy in, close there eyes and pass it on, not check the product they are selling .bit of a cowboy supplier imo .
My local tile shop,recently had a bathroom go titis up due to poor tiles , they checked bathroom, re supplied them different tiles , took all tiles they had in the wearhouse outside, got them taken away never to be seen again.
Must of cost him in the long run, but he said it's his shop reputation on the line as well , which Is the right answer .
Of course the tiler should take a bit of blame , we open boxes, and lay them.
Not one person on here will check every tile in every box, like ahas been said , you can't tell in most cases until it's grouted and finished , imo the supplier should also take the blame as it's him selling a bloody inferior product.
Not the tiler who is the dumbass , it's the person selling shiit
My local tile shop,recently had a bathroom go titis up due to poor tiles , they checked bathroom, re supplied them different tiles , took all tiles they had in the wearhouse outside, got them taken away never to be seen again.
Must of cost him in the long run, but he said it's his shop reputation on the line as well , which Is the right answer .
Of course the tiler should take a bit of blame , we open boxes, and lay them.
Not one person on here will check every tile in every box, like ahas been said , you can't tell in most cases until it's grouted and finished , imo the supplier should also take the blame as it's him selling a bloody inferior product.
Not the tiler who is the dumbass , it's the person selling shiit
T
Tile Shop
Like i said, for the third time, if the batches match? What more do you want us to do?
If its faulty, damn right we'll replace it. We're obliged to do so. And if a batch is deemed to be faulty, we will also chuck it outside never to sell it again.
But fixing is your acceptance that the product is ok. From that point on, a supplier is not obliged to do anything. But it'd be a very poor show if the supplier said point blank "tough. Bye". At the very least, although they don't technically have to, a delivery of a fresh acceptible batch of tiles is on the cards. I now refer you to the last paragraph of my first post.... if you want compensation after you've not done whats asked of you, as a responsible supplier, we will still raise it with the manufacturer. On their agreement, you'll be reimbursed for your time and additional work.
If its faulty, damn right we'll replace it. We're obliged to do so. And if a batch is deemed to be faulty, we will also chuck it outside never to sell it again.
But fixing is your acceptance that the product is ok. From that point on, a supplier is not obliged to do anything. But it'd be a very poor show if the supplier said point blank "tough. Bye". At the very least, although they don't technically have to, a delivery of a fresh acceptible batch of tiles is on the cards. I now refer you to the last paragraph of my first post.... if you want compensation after you've not done whats asked of you, as a responsible supplier, we will still raise it with the manufacturer. On their agreement, you'll be reimbursed for your time and additional work.
W
WetSaw
If I may play Devils advocate here for a moment... There's probably a bit of responsibility to be spread amongst all parties here.
The manufacturer for ( possibly, I can't be arsed to read their website..) not properly explaining shading variations. The supplier for the same. The tiler for not mixing boxes, as is suggested on most tile boxes. The client for not understanding there may be variations in shade and possibly having unrealistic expectations of what is possible.
The manufacturer for ( possibly, I can't be arsed to read their website..) not properly explaining shading variations. The supplier for the same. The tiler for not mixing boxes, as is suggested on most tile boxes. The client for not understanding there may be variations in shade and possibly having unrealistic expectations of what is possible.
I
Italy
you can say what you want, but if you do not respect the rules, there will always tilers come here on the forum to say why? it is not my fault etc etc.
I prefer to lose a day's work, rather than have problems later.
put that kind of tiles, does it cost much more, this also implies a greater control by the tiler.
I prefer to lose a day's work, rather than have problems later.
put that kind of tiles, does it cost much more, this also implies a greater control by the tiler.
I
Italy
andy, is a life that there are these rules.If I state I my T/C that I except no responsibility for any shading, different batches or any other problem that may arise with tiles NOT supplied by me then that should put me in the clear..
And I'll put it in tiny writing like the suppliers do.......
you can write all the rules you want, but a judge will follow those described above.
then who pays for you to stop and pay a day rate whilst you wait for new tiles to come?
This is fine but I will bet my bottom dollar that when you supply tiles you don't explain to the customer that they should expect to pay an excess of £150-£250 for the installer to remove all tiles from boxes, lay out and check shading do you?
I
Italy
you read the rules written by paul?
if you think what you do is right. then continues
if I notice a shade variation at any stage i'd stop and explain to the customer and see what they want to do no question. But my point is if you do this, who pays for your lose of time? supplier, customer or manufacturer?
I
Italy
are the risks of the job.
pose for that type of tile, the price per square meter is very high.
a key reason in my opinion is the most waste of time to set. then, if the product actually has problems, the supplier in accordance with the manufacturer, will indemnify the lost time.
that's all
I
Italy
there are also catalogs on the Internet, explain very well the product that you install and the shading relationship that can have the tile you need to install.
it is never time lost, the morning after the tiler, he already knows what to say to the customer.
unfortunately this is the future of our work, it is more time to explain and understand, that the time to do the job.
it is never time lost, the morning after the tiler, he already knows what to say to the customer.
unfortunately this is the future of our work, it is more time to explain and understand, that the time to do the job.
''I'm fed up''@ Simons70 perchè mi spii ?
ho bisogno di te, come si dice: mi hai rotto i coglioni in inglese?
devo dirlo a uno, ma non sò come si scrive
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