Major Problem!!!

[Tedd]

The Joiner seemed to be project managing the job and initially hired us. He was organising all the tradesman plasterers, plumbers, electrician etc although the owner has now said he was project managing it although we never saw him. The joiner had to sign off the tiling with the owner before we were paid and we were paid in full.

The customer ias actually bieng ok and has said that it has to go to court because there are 2 parties involved and the joiner is not admitting any liability whatsoever as he is convinced he layed the floor to BS.

Where can I get a copy of BS?

 

[TrumpersUnited]

I would just offer FOC labour to put the job right accepting no liability if i were you Tedd.

 

[CJ]

So did the joiner pay you...........or customer direct?

I bet the joiner is getting worried as well

 

[Mike]

I would just offer FOC labour to put the job right accepting no liability if i were you Tedd.

although that would be a nice gesture it may be seen to some as an admittance to blame, and why should you be out of pocket due to someone elses mistake

 

[Tabby Cranks]

The joiner has said in the investigation that there was a 12-14mm deflection in the floor prior to tiling but this is well within BS according to him. We had to fill part of it with self levelling compound to give us a chance to get over it.

I can't get my head around this. Was the floor deflecting (bouncing) 12-14mm? If so how would a leveling compound over come this? Or are you saying there was a 12-14mm fall or dip?

 

[jay]

and i think you mean in post 24 12mm deviation not deflection. the floor should be deflection free.

must agree its a bit confusing

 

[charlie1]

yeah, that would be very bouncy!

 

[floora]

Sure its movement and not shrinkage of the ply?

 

[mapei242]

I agree must be deviation, however with regard to deflection of a timber floor. If your floor is suitable for a tigger (not necessarily a technical term) then this is not suitable for tile application. The adhesives have have extreme defomability capabilities these days with S2 category but there still lies the underlying problem that tiles do not bend!

A floor must be solid and sound of strength no matter what its construction.

 

[jay]

could be messy but back to basics .What caused the floor to fail,
Not the actual tiling but the substrate

 

[Tedd]

Hi Everyone,

Been away so sorry for no response. It was a 12 - 14mm dip there did not seem to be any movement in the floor prior to tiling.

 

[CJ]

Why was it dipping at all??

 

[Tedd]

I thought it was just the age of the property, It did it in several places but no movement was felt, even with 4 of us on the floor.

 

[Stephen@Weber]

So the tiles are still stuck down but are cracking? You can't of stuck them down that badly! How thick was your adhesive bed?

 

[DHTiling]

I thought it was just the age of the property, It did it in several places but no movement was felt, even with 4 of us on the floor.

If you are getting cracks then it is deffo a form of stress.. be it deflection or expansion/contraction..

 

[Tedd]

Here are 2 photos, one of the cracking along the ply and the other were there was insufficient adhesive in the top right corner.

 

[DHTiling]

Yep.. looks like stress at the ply joints and insufficient bedding of the tiles..

 

[Tedd]

There was a full bed of adhesive under where the crack was though. It was stuck fast it was one corner that had insufficient adhesive

 

[DHTiling]

The adhesive bed is still ribbed.. so no it wasn't a solid bed.. but ye you can see that stress crack right through the adhesive ribs

 

[Stephen@Weber]

I actually meant how thick was the adhesive, 5mm thick will take up more movement than 2mm thick

 

[jay]

Think the customer is right in this one ,if it were mine i would be asking for a full rip out including ply and re do 😳

 

[Tedd]

That is not the issue. We are trying to find out why they have cracked, I will have no issue in replacing the broken tiles at my cost, but the surveyor has recommended that the joists be replaced so exactly where does my responsibility lie, as all the tiles need to be ripped up and floorboards along with joists replaced, 25mm ply put down and retiled. The joiner is accepting no responsability so who is going to pay for the £3.5k of tiles/adhesive/labour?

 

[DHTiling]

If the joists are not op to the weight of the installation and the joiner did it all to British standards, then why is the buck passed to you.. You need to get an independent survey done.. IMO you should contact the TTA.

 

[Tedd]

He has stated that he raised concerns at the beggining and reccomended that new joists be put in with herringbone struts???? and that I told him this was not necessary so therefore it is my fault. This conversation did not take place and he is just passing the buck, I am not a builder or structural engineer and would never give advice on something I know absolutely nothing about. I will contact the TTA as I am a bit stuck as to what to do next.

 

[DHTiling]

I would.. this joiner is trying to wriggle out of it..

 

[CJ]

Tedd............you need independant Professional help, or this builder is gonna stitch you up like a kipper.

He is no way going to accept any responsibility if its going to cost him.

 

[young1066]

the joiners arse is not covered he should use 18mm or plastic ply,he is responsable for the floor and not you,tiling is a finish,not a preporation,as long as you are happy there was no obvious bounce in the floor,your okay as for lack of adhesive in the corner of a tile,thats not an issue as long as you re-do it.legally he has to pay you,in the first instance he has to give you the oppertunity to put it right if he can prove your at fault,if he says he does not want you to put it right,then you both have to agree on someone indepedent to put it right at an agreed cost,then pay you the remainder of your invoice,if he does'nt he will automatically loose in a small claims court,any work to the floating floor is not your cost as this is considered as betterment,in the last 6 years i have taken 3 people to court and won on this basis,i have just issued a summons today against a greek restaraunt who bumped me for £1,905 of which £1,140 is materials,its always people in business that seem to do it,domestic always pay,stand your ground

 

[Dan]

Just bumping some of the older popular (sometimes not so popular) threads. Probably wont be current discussion these days but I just need to do it. So just ignore the thread if it's not current for you.