Tiles coming up months after installation

[Unregistered]

i have three property lets that are constructed with water underfloor heating under a chipboard floor that is supported on beams. There is little to no deflection of the floor when standing on it. The floor is 18mm flooring grade chipboard.
The first floor was tiled 2 years ago and the last one 9 months ago and all are showing signs of the floor tiles being loose in area where people walk.
The floor was tiled by a professional tiler, using flexible adhesive etc. supplied by a reputable tile shop.
When the tiles are lifted the adhesive is stuck to the tile but not the floor.
We are about to lift one of the floors and strip all the tiles off and start again.
Any advise ?
I do not want to go through this again in another years time as the properties are tenant lets.
My gut feel is abandon the tiles and go for laminate !

 

[DHTiling]

So the tiler tiled straight to the chipboard.. ? and it is a floating wet ufh floor..?

 

[Ajax123]

i have three property lets that are constructed with water underfloor heating under a chipboard floor that is supported on beams. There is little to no deflection of the floor when standing on it. The floor is 18mm flooring grade chipboard.
The first floor was tiled 2 years ago and the last one 9 months ago and all are showing signs of the floor tiles being loose in area where people walk.
The floor was tiled by a professional tiler, using flexible adhesive etc. supplied by a reputable tile shop.
When the tiles are lifted the adhesive is stuck to the tile but not the floor.
We are about to lift one of the floors and strip all the tiles off and start again.
Any advise ?
I do not want to go through this again in another years time as the properties are tenant lets.
My gut feel is abandon the tiles and go for laminate !

cant be any of them then can it??

 

[Ian Vinton]

So the tiler tiled straight to the chipboard.. ? and it is a floating wet ufh floor..?

Yes floating floor with 18mm chipboard, supported on beams, with wet underfloor heating

 

[Ian]

Moved to tiling forum.

 

[DHTiling]

Yes floating floor with 18mm chipboard, supported on beams, with wet underfloor heating

Hi Ian and welcome..

Sorry to say but that is a major disaster scenario as you have found out... no way should that floor have been tiled the way it was..

 

[Ian Vinton]

That is my gut feel, I know nothing about tiling and left it to my Contractors.

Should I bite the bullet, rip out the tiles and put down interlocking laminate floor. It has been OK in the bedrooms with no issues.

I will still have the problem of tiles in the bathrooms and kitchen areas which have been built over, but these are larger tiles, I suspect they will also fail but later.

 

[Andy Allen]

ive seen many floating floors that have been tiled fail..

 

[Ian Vinton]

A stupid question from a novice but why is there not a tile adhesive that sticks to flooring grade chipboard ?

 

[DHTiling]

That is my gut feel, I know nothing about tiling and left it to my Contractors.

Should I bite the bullet, rip out the tiles and put down interlocking laminate floor. It has been OK in the bedrooms with no issues.

I will still have the problem of tiles in the bathrooms and kitchen areas which have been built over, but these are larger tiles, I suspect they will also fail but later.

Can i ask Ian , how did you commission the heating once tiling was complete.. not that this is to blame but it can contribute to fails in areas of larger layouts... but IMO Ian floating floors seem to be solid when first laid but after time they tend to sag and then deflection is a problem, and when heat is involved , then it increases the failure risk.

 

[Mr T]

You didnt mention the floor being primed... Maybe thats the reason the adhesive wasnt stuck to the floor?

 

[Ian Vinton]

The heating was not switched on for two weeks for the first property and 1 week for the others.

 

[Ian Vinton]

You didnt mention the floor being primed... Maybe thats the reason the adhesive wasnt stuck to the floor?

The floor was primed, I saw it done. Given two coats according to the tiler.
However, the tiles were laid when the primer was still tacky, is that right ?

 

[DHTiling]

The floor was primed, I saw it done. Given two coats according to the tiler.
However, the tiles were laid when the primer was still tacky, is that right ?

Most tile adhesives (cement based ) do state no primer ... this might explain the lack of bonding ... but still does not make the installation of tiling direct to chipboard correct ..

Have you called the tiler back Ian.. ?

 

[Andy Allen]

depends on the adhesive, some don't recommend priming the surface to be tiled..

 

[Ian Vinton]

Most tile adhesives (cement based ) do state no primer ... this might explain the lack of bonding ... but still does not make the installation of tiling direct to chipboard correct ..

Have you called the tiler back Ian.. ?

I have had him back twice and he is back tomorrow to strip out the tiles and do a temporary (as that is all it will be) repair in one of the other properties. He is not sure what the problem is, he has mentioned wrong adhesive supplied and the supplier reckons there has not been enough adhesive used.
I am at my wits end as we need these properties let, we currently have one unoccupied, where we found the problem and one being vacated in 4 weeks because of the problem.

 

[DHTiling]

Ian it is down to the tiler to ensure the correct adhesive is used , so he really should not be using that excuse..???

 

[White Room]

Was the heating banged straight up to it's highest heat or was it turned up gradually.....

 

[Rookery]

As you've discovered from the earlier replies, several things either individually or collectively lead to the failures.
1. Tiling direct to chipboard - not good
2. Tiling to a floating floor - not good
3. Using a tiler who thinks doing the above is ok - not good
4. Adding heat into the equation - not good
Had you asked me to quote for this job, I would have politely declined.
Whilst I always want to see tiles used ahead of other finishes I think on this occasion I would consider an alternative.

 

[Ian Vinton]

Was the heating banged straight up to it's highest heat or was it turned up gradually.....

The heating went on at at 15 degrees for a couple of months and then up to 18 background, and the up to about 25 degrees

 

[Paulyboy]

Personally, i would not lay tile direct onto a chipboard floating floor.......

 

[Ian Vinton]

So upshot is:
We should strip out the tiles where we can i.e.: not the bathroom and kitchen areas.
Apply a different flooring i.e.: laminate

Shame, as I love the tiled floors.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Chipboard, floating floor? sorry Ian, primed or unprimed, commissioned or not, this is a lost cause imo. It is a rip out and start again, one tip don't use that "tiler" again get a real one. Get the prep done properly it may not be cheap. Other than that go with Karndene or similar. Good luck

 

[White Room]

The op mentioned beams which I took as joists....

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

As you've discovered from the earlier replies, several things either individually or collectively lead to the failures.
1. Tiling direct to chipboard - not good
2. Tiling to a floating floor - not good
3. Using a tiler who thinks doing the above is ok - not good
4. Adding heat into the equation - not good
Had you asked me to quote for this job, I would have politely declined.
Whilst I always want to see tiles used ahead of other finishes I think on this occasion I would consider an alternative.

Snap I am a bit slow typing.

 

[Rookery]

Snap I am a bit slow typing.

Speed isnt everything, especially at our age :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Tile Marble Granite]

You guys here in the UK tile onto plywood-chipboard alot which is unacceptable, you guys think if you use fexibile adhesive you are ready to go, that s wrong, 9 out of 10 jobs fail because of that. You need a subfloor, durock, ditra, screeds, hardibecker, etc... So you got hacked, it is a common thing here in the UK http://www.customtilemarblegranite.com/

 

[Stef]

You guys here in the UK tile onto plywood-chipboard alot which is unacceptable, you guys think if you use fexibile adhesive you are ready to go, that s wrong, 9 out of 10 jobs fail because of that. You need a subfloor, durock, ditra, screeds, hardibecker, etc... So you got hacked, it is a common thing here in the UK http://www.customtilemarblegranite.com/

Take it you haven't read all the posts in this thread??

 

[AliGage]

Am i right in thinking your UFH is under the clipboard floor? If so you are heating the very thing the tiles are trying to stay fixed to.
The clipboard will expand and contract. Tiles aren't ever going to stay fixed for very long.
Might be a glued wood job instead of tiles?

 

[Ian Vinton]

Am i right in thinking your UFH is under the clipboard floor? If so you are heating the very thing the tiles are trying to stay fixed to.
The clipboard will expand and contract. Tiles aren't ever going to stay fixed for very long.
Might be a glued wood job instead of tiles?

Is that not the same with all underfloor heating ?

 

[Andy Allen]

You guys here in the UK tile onto plywood-chipboard alot which is unacceptable, you guys think if you use fexibile adhesive you are ready to go, that s wrong, 9 out of 10 jobs fail because of that. You need a subfloor, durock, ditra, screeds, hardibecker, etc... So you got hacked, it is a common thing here in the UK Home - TileMarbleGranite

And you guys, don't know what your talking about..