Why do i need an nvq by 2010? - Tile Advice

[dannyr737]

most of the work i do is site work and i only have a basic skills cscs card,and if this nvq thing is true its the first i have heard of it,i lay terrazzo for a big company and can honestly say that i have never met a terrazzo tiler or ceramic tiler on a big supermarket job that was qualified in any way shape or form

 

[The D]

Both interesting comments there, and both very right. Training centre's are fidning it hard to get the right accreditation. You'll find most of the good ones have some backing from a governing body.

So just make sure you're calling the right training centre's when looking.

I think in many cases there is funding available.

You state in your post “You'll find most of the good ones have some backing from a governing body”. Inferring that the ones without accreditation are no good.
Although I think it is good for private centres to be accredited for NVQ or the ICA/ACA, do not make the mistake of thinking that the training in a centre that dose not offer NVQ or ICA/ACA is some how inferior. In fact it can sometimes mean the opposite. Where a non-accredited centre is free to cover the things they think a tiler needs to no and are not swamped with a mountain of paper work. Meaning that the trainers have more time to spend on the students instead of cutting there way thorough all the red tape. This is not true however of an accredited centre though I am not in any way putting down the centres that are accredited. On the contrary they have worked very hard to gain accreditation and as I said they have had to jump through a lot of hoops but the fact is that they have to answer to the governing body and this can sometimes be a hindrance rather than a help.
Just in case there is any confusion as to where I stand. I am in favour of a competent and qualified work force but do still see a place for training centres that offer just the practical training.
By the way it is grate to have a place to debate these issue

 

[Daz]

Is your card a trade specific or is it a labourer’s card eg is it blue or green

Hmmm..
It's white and on the back it says that I am a "Specialist Wall Tiler ONLY"

Have I got a duff one???? :mad2:

 

[The D]

Hmmm..
It's white and on the back it says that I am a "Specialist Wall Tiler ONLY"

Have I got a duff one???? :mad2:

No its not duff but you are only covered for wall tiling. It depends on the site agent as to whether he pulls you on it. I suspect at the moment no one will be to bothered but as we get closer to 2010 it will become much stricter and if your card is not the one for the job you are doing then you will not be allowed to work.
They have changed the rules since you did the test for the card you have.
When you go to get the wall and floor tiling card it will only be valid for one year. In that year you have to achieve the NVQ or they will not renew it.

 

[Daz]

Thanks Deano,

That clears things up for me.
I've never done site work and don't really want to but, I got a CSCS just in case things didn't go to plan.

 

[The D]

most of the work i do is site work and i only have a basic skills cscs card,and if this nvq thing is true its the first i have heard of it,i lay terrazzo for a big company and can honestly say that i have never met a terrazzo tiler or ceramic tiler on a big supermarket job that was qualified in any way shape or form

Back in the day when I started tiling there was a roumor going around that you were going to have to where safety boots hard hats and high vis vests. No way! I said. That will never happen but look at us now.
You show me a site that lets you on with out your PPE and I will show you a cowboy outfit.

 

[Dan]

I think it would be a really good work force and that our tilers that derserve the work would get it, and paid at a decent price, if all the centre's were accredited though. And all the tiler's trained.

I think training centre's that are NOT working towards and NVQ are inferior to be frank. I think though tiling as a business does involve lots of practical - you do need the knowledge too - it's a finishing trade that has a lot of different products and applications and can be one of the most critisised by customers when it goes wrong.

I think the training centre's knocking the NVQ need to get a grip. It's not a distant impossible grade for the 'time served' tilers to get, and christ if I were in a trade where I knew I was elite and established I'd be the first to stick my workforce through it - what better selling point to new contactors or domestic customers?

I think a lot of the training centre's are knocking it because they've been knocked back by accreditation - and that's not fair to cause a fuss over the actual qualification for that reason alone - would they if they DID get approved? I don't think so. They'd be shouting about it as much as everybody who knows you need an NVQ by 2010 (not to get work - but to get easy work and a guaranteed job)

There are grants, it's often cheap if not free (not always) and the time-served tilers WILL fly though it. If you put £15 a month to onc side now JUST INCASE - then if you're struggling nearer the time you know you have some cash to go out and get yourself certified to the government backed training qualification.

I know we don't all like that - but we can't have our judgment blurred by views of some centre that's decided they're now better than the NVQ or the NVQ was never worth it for them (after they have applied and looked in to accreditation and have either been knokced back or just knew it's real hard work).

I think it's a shame to see newer tilers to be mislead - and the older ones to be used almost, as a tool to get their training centre work.

Speak to the right people and see what you think then - Tiling Courses - Tile Training Courses - Wall and Floor Tiling Course - Tiling NVQ - Tiling Courses & Tiling Course Companies

 

[Dan]

You state in your post “You'll find most of the good ones have some backing from a governing body”. Inferring that the ones without accreditation are no good.
Although I think it is good for private centres to be accredited for NVQ or the ICA/ACA, do not make the mistake of thinking that the training in a centre that dose not offer NVQ or ICA/ACA is some how inferior. In fact it can sometimes mean the opposite. Where a non-accredited centre is free to cover the things they think a tiler needs to no and are not swamped with a mountain of paper work. Meaning that the trainers have more time to spend on the students instead of cutting there way thorough all the red tape. This is not true however of an accredited centre though I am not in any way putting down the centres that are accredited. On the contrary they have worked very hard to gain accreditation and as I said they have had to jump through a lot of hoops but the fact is that they have to answer to the governing body and this can sometimes be a hindrance rather than a help.
Just in case there is any confusion as to where I stand. I am in favour of a competent and qualified work force but do still see a place for training centres that offer just the practical training.
By the way it is grate to have a place to debate these issue

I'd call that a DIY / homeowner course and not mislead those wanting to be a professional tiler though, don't you?

 

[The D]

I think it would be a really good work force and that our tilers that derserve the work would get it, and paid at a decent price, if all the centre's were accredited though. And all the tiler's trained.
I think training centre's that are NOT working towards and NVQ are inferior to be frank. I think though tiling as a business does involve lots of practical - you do need the knowledge too - it's a finishing trade that has a lot of different products and applications and can be one of the most critisised by customers when it goes wrong.
I think the training centre's knocking the NVQ need to get a grip. It's not a distant impossible grade for the 'time served' tilers to get, and christ if I were in a trade where I knew I was elite and established I'd be the first to stick my workforce through it - what better selling point to new contactors or domestic customers?
I think a lot of the training centre's are knocking it because they've been knocked back by accreditation - and that's not fair to cause a fuss over the actual qualification for that reason alone - would they if they DID get approved? I don't think so. They'd be shouting about it as much as everybody who knows you need an NVQ by 2010 (not to get work - but to get easy work and a guaranteed job)
There are grants, it's often cheap if not free (not always) and the time-served tilers WILL fly though it. If you put £15 a month to onc side now JUST INCASE - then if you're struggling nearer the time you know you have some cash to go out and get yourself certified to the government backed training qualification.
I know we don't all like that - but we can't have our judgment blurred by views of some centre that's decided they're now better than the NVQ or the NVQ was never worth it for them (after they have applied and looked in to accreditation and have either been knokced back or just knew it's real hard work).
I think it's a shame to see newer tilers to be mislead - and the older ones to be used almost, as a tool to get their training centre work.
Speak to the right people and see what you think then - Tiling Courses - Tile Training Courses - Wall and Floor Tiling Course - Tiling NVQ - Tiling Courses & Tiling Course Companies

Firstly I am not knocking the NVQ or the centres that offer it.
Secondly I do not agree that all centres that do not offer NVQ are inferior or misleading. Neither are you justified in giving all centres that do not offer NVQ a
Verbal bashing. Some of the centres run very good practical courses. I find it distasteful that you can knock these curses when that is how some of you own sponsors started
If you new any thing at all about the NVQ system I would probably have a little more respect for your opinion.
I my self am a 25 year time served wall and floor tiler with my one fixing company (and by the way all my fixers are qwald up) and I hold the full level 3 Learning and Development Award and the individual ‘L’ units, and I am also an A1 approved Awarding Body assessor for ICA/ACA NVQ level 2 and NVQ level 3 so I think my commitment to the NVQ system is proven what are your Qwals m8???
I think plugging your sponsors has gone to your head little.

 

[The D]

I'd call that a DIY / homeowner course and not mislead those wanting to be a professional tiler though, don't you?

No i do not I call misleading telling people you are independent when you clearly are NOT!

 

[The D]

I think it would be a really good work force and that our tilers that derserve the work would get it, and paid at a decent price, if all the centre's were accredited though. And all the tiler's trained.

I think training centre's that are NOT working towards and NVQ are inferior to be frank. I think though tiling as a business does involve lots of practical - you do need the knowledge too - it's a finishing trade that has a lot of different products and applications and can be one of the most critisised by customers when it goes wrong.

I think the training centre's knocking the NVQ need to get a grip. It's not a distant impossible grade for the 'time served' tilers to get, and christ if I were in a trade where I knew I was elite and established I'd be the first to stick my workforce through it - what better selling point to new contactors or domestic customers?

I think a lot of the training centre's are knocking it because they've been knocked back by accreditation - and that's not fair to cause a fuss over the actual qualification for that reason alone - would they if they DID get approved? I don't think so. They'd be shouting about it as much as everybody who knows you need an NVQ by 2010 (not to get work - but to get easy work and a guaranteed job)

There are grants, it's often cheap if not free (not always) and the time-served tilers WILL fly though it. If you put £15 a month to onc side now JUST INCASE - then if you're struggling nearer the time you know you have some cash to go out and get yourself certified to the government backed training qualification.

I know we don't all like that - but we can't have our judgment blurred by views of some centre that's decided they're now better than the NVQ or the NVQ was never worth it for them (after they have applied and looked in to accreditation and have either been knokced back or just knew it's real hard work).

I think it's a shame to see newer tilers to be mislead - and the older ones to be used almost, as a tool to get their training centre work.

Speak to the right people and see what you think then - Tiling Courses - Tile Training Courses - Wall and Floor Tiling Course - Tiling NVQ - Tiling Courses & Tiling Course Companies

“It's not a distant impossible grade for the 'time served' tilers to get”
No it is not. Actually it is very easy for a 'time served' tiler to get an NVQ all they have to do is go to BAL and do the EWPAR. An interview a professional discussion and a simple practical test three days job don.

 

[tiler burden]

heres my take....

1.nvq's are compulsary on site as of 2010 whether we/you like it or agree with it, so the easiest thing to do is accept it and get one..as i have said before, its better to pay £500 to get an osat or experienced workers route than to lose months of work because you havent got an nvq. if your only other way is to do a 6 week ica and then osat over 6-10months then do it!! if you act between now and xmas, then you should be ok for 2010.

2. nvq's are like anything else in life, they can have 2 meanings.

A) you could have worked hard at gaining it. putting in the hours with a reputable trainer or employee/ college and working meticulously at your goal of becoming a competent professional tiler or
B) blag it by getting phoney portfolios, references, work history etc and making out you know what your doing by learning the nvq criteria parrot fashion and then handing over the £500 to a less than credible assessor/trainer who is only interested in creaming the pie while the grant money is there for the taking.......so in other words, the nvq isnt really what important, its your own integrity and standards of HOW you achieve in that matters.

3. i honestly dont think an an nvq 2 syllabus ALONE!! is a good indicator of a good tiler you are. i really think you should have 3 years college, with 3 years employment as a tiler. and i think the nvq3 should be the new grade, with less emphasis on managerial structure and more relevance of advanced techniques. i also believe the nvq should be assessed at colleges over a term structure rather than at a training center....lets make an exam that you can actually fail hey!!! too much emphasis is on course work/portfolio now. we should go back to exams. the idea of applied knowledge is being able to rely on it when its called upon. if you can't remember it in an exam situation, then what chance have you got on a job....

this countries standards have dropped dramatically over the last 20-25 years. ever since the yts came about, everything has gone down hill...everything is fast tracked, streamlined and disposable...lets go back to apprenticships if possible..they proved to be the only way to regularly produce quailty skilled tradesman, that were the eny of the world....

 

[muffinman]

Well said

 

[Dan]

I sent an email to Oliver and this is the reply.

[FONT=&quot]Hi Dan:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks for your e-mail, (don’t now if I’m the only person in the country with the answer though)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I work for Construction Skills as a Specialist Training Adviser and part of my role is to liaise with the Wall & Floor Tiling Industry and The Tile Association.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have come across your site previously and have seen some interesting topics discussed on there.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Re NVQ Needed for Domestic Work by 2010:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The simple answer is NO.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At present you do not need an NVQ Qualification to carry out Wall & Floor Tiling in Domestic premises, and currently there is no requirement for Domestic Wall & Floor Tilers to have their NVQ by 2010.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2010 is the target date that Learning Skills Council (LSC) have set for there to be a Fully Qualified UK Workforce. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Commercial[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Building[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Sites: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NVQ’s are now linked to CSCS Cards which are required to gain access to Commercial Building sites.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Eventually, commercial site workers will need to gain the NVQ to enable them to get their CSCS Card. (holders of the Grandfathers Rights / Industry Accreditation CSCS Card are exempt from gaining their NVQ, this card ceased to be issued after December 2003) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Some Advantages to the NVQ Qualification:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]The NVQ is the only way to prove you’re a competent Wall & Floor Tiler.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]In the event of an accident involving a Tilers work. Health & Safety will ask you to prove that you are competent to carryout Wall & Floor Tiling work, the NVQ is the only way to prove this. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Attendance on a training course is not proof that you’re competent to carry out Wall & Floor Tiling work.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Assessment for the NVQ via the On Site Assessment Route takes place in the workplace. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is no need for Tilers to take time off work by attending a College to gain the NVQ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Advertising the fact that you’re a Fully Qualified Wall & Floor Tiler should get you ahead of the competition who are not qualified.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Local authorities are now starting to insist on qualified trades people only working on their contracts.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]There is NVQ Level 2 and Level 3, and Heritage Skills Units for Wall & Floor Tiling. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]English Heritage only want qualified and experienced tilers to work on their Conservation and Restoration projects.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]For insurance purposes you may need the NVQ Qualification.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]There is currently LSC funding available for the NVQ Qualification. The funding covers the cost of gaining the qualification. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If LSC funding was not available, Wall & Floor Tilers would be looking at paying between £600 - £1200 to get their NVQ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The NVQ is not going away, and I would encourage your clients to make use of LSC Funding that is currently available to them to gain their NVQ Qualification.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hope the above information is of some use to you and your clients.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Any questions please e-mail or call me on 07771 542 431.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Oliver Farrell[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Specialist Training Adviser [/FONT]

 

[tkm18]

So an NVQ is the only way to prove your a competent wall and floor tiler?? :frown2: