Massive problem involving chipboard flooring and underfloor heating. - Tile Advice

[Andy Allen]

Is it a floating floor.....??

 

[Qwerty]

Thankyou for taking the time to post this on the forum. You have read the reasons for the failure and you have been very honest about it all. Sadly so many people (some tile sheds, builders & YouTube stars included) think your practices are acceptable and still maintain that they are.
I do wish you all the very best with it all and I too feel sorry for the situation you are in. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to it. Do keep us updated.

Geoff

 

[Dumbo]

What size were the tiles . Just out of interest

 

[Stan Rogers]

600 x 600 tiles. I was thinking the same as one of the guys above, as a contributing factor the fact that the boards were stored and layed in very cold conditions, so your going to maximum movement in the boards when the heating comes on. Likewise the tiles were out in the cold open garage being bought in.

Sadly it's no wind up. I'm not trying to wash my hands of responsibility, there's just do many contributing factors here, I don't see why I should take the brunt of all of it.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Although my first post was somewhat ‘glib’ I wouldn’t hold my hands up and admit liability in court!
Their are reasons we don’t tile direct to chipboard, but primed and good adhesive will normally mean they stick!
When I’ve seen failures it’s usually cracking along a joint. There is a possibility that your levelling clips have pulled the bond away from the floor but the depth of your bed should have been enough.
From your info it’s the heating that seems to be the issue and it’s effect on your work. So again I’d say Don’t admit anything! Customers rarely follow the procedure for commissioning UFH and so most tilers now have it on their invoices under terms and conditions. You see the tiler/adhesive is always to blame.
Case history.
I did a stone floor 20 years ago. Old Manor House, thick floorboards, 15mm plywood screwed through to joists. Taped all joints ( no decoupling in those days). Got called to a site visit 6 months later for cracking tiles every 4-8 feet! I’am being asked to fix it ‘tilers fault’ , I tell them it’s not my responsibility. I suggest they get a Structural Engineer in to assess the floor which had dropped 18mm from the skirting and now had the equivalent of 3 tons of granite worktops inc a ton centre console.
We can fix tiles to the relevant British Standards but we have absolutely no control after we leave a job.

 

[Stan Rogers]

Thanks for all advice, much appreciated!

I've a feeling it's going to be a complicated affair to resolve.

Does anyone have any good advice on fixing the problem? Short of pulling everything out right back to the floor joists? I'm obviously not going to be doing it myself, lesson learnt there, but I've read about some kind of grinder that takes off the adhesive is there anything else that can be done?

 

[Just Rizzle]

you seem a decent guy i would throw it back to the client, he knew you wernt a tiler as a tiler gave him a price which he wasnt prepared to pay. he instructed you to tile on chipdoard and he had the heating turned on too early. the heating turned on to early is a major issue and in my opinion the main cause of failure which would dry out adhesive too quickly causing de bonding. its the clients fault for being a skin flint getting a chippy to do a cheap job he got what he paid for a bodge job. youve done your best brass it out live and learn. if it goes to court have you got evidence of his instructions to you eye witnesses etc any thing in writing the plumber turning on the heating. the fault is not 100% yours probably 33% the other the clients and the plumber good luck.

 

[Waluigi]

gotta agree with the last couple of posts. You were put in a situation that was out of your control and now all of a sudden you are expected to be the scapegoat. I’d stand firm and tell them it wasn’t just a case of installer error, it was a preparation error and UFH commissioning error.

 

[J Sid]

don't really agree with the above two.
you haven't prepared the floor and fixed the tiles correctly. that may or may not have caused the failure, but do agree if floor wasn't commissioned correctly this would more then likely be the problem. You should have stopped it being turned on when you were fixing and not listened to the Plumber or customer if they insisted it had to be.
if this ends in court and both customer and plumber say it wasn't turned on and was commissioned correctly it would be you word against there's. If you haven't got anything to back up what you say, email at the time or photos, I don't fancy your chances, sadly.
sorry for saying your post was a wind up.

 

[Dumbo]

don't really agree with the above two.
you haven't prepared the floor and fixed the tiles correctly. that may or may not have caused the failure, but do agree if floor wasn't commissioned correctly this would more then likely be the problem. You should have stopped it being turned on when you were fixing and not listened to the Plumber or customer if they insisted it had to be.
if this ends in court and both customer and plumber say it wasn't turned on and was commissioned correctly it would be you word against there's. If you haven't got anything to back up what you say, email at the time or photos, I don't fancy your chances, sadly.
sorry for saying your post was a wind up.

A friend of mine was in court once and the judge said ignorance is no defence of the law . Before anybody gets uptight by ignorance he meant not knowing

 

[Flintstone]

My opinion on the matter is it is 100% your fault. Yes the plumber turned the heating on, but if you knew what you were doing you would have stopped him. Your doing the tiling you dictate what is done for the job to be done correctly. If I listened to plumbers and clients, I'd be doing things the wrong way half the time. Put your hands up and get it sorted out.

 

[Stan Rogers]

I wasn't actually there when he turned it on, he was doing it in the evenings and weekends as a foreigner for his mate. We did one day tiling came in the next and the heating was on. Granted at that point I should have known and tools down maybe. My customer was always very quick to remind me also that the plumber works on posh new builds with this set up all the time. Granted again I should have argued the toss.

 

[acaciaguy]

It can often be last man to work gets the blame. With finishing trades like tiling you have to be so careful to control everything. If you can’t. Walk. Sorry for your situation.

 

[Steve6690]

I think your only way out of this is to find the tiler who originally quoted and ask him what he advised the client was the correct method. He might be disinclined to help you though. It would help you prove that he was advised by a competent person, completely ignored that advice and then hired someone he knew was unqualified to carry out the work, according to instructions given by him. All to save a few quid.
Not saying you'd be found completely blameless, but your liability might be significantly reduced. The bloke sounds like an idiot tbh.

 

[ashley600]

As above really. Sounds like the customer didn't want to pay fot the prep work which would of given the floor the strength it needed to be tiled.

For all the you know the client was told the proper way to prep a floor by the tile shop but decided not to bother and went with a half assed as maybe it would work.