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J

j2112c

A question on pricing jobs up, what do the pro tilers here take into account when pricing up a job? I am starting out and though not asking rates per metre I would like to know what a rookie should bear in mind, you know, cost of disposing of tiles/waste, particularly time consuming jobs ect.
 
T

TheWrightTiler

howdo matey

unless otherwise agreed then rubbish remains the responsibility of homeowner

if they want u to dispose charge accordingly but bear in mind if using commercial vehicle then charges may apply at your local tip

i price up by the metre for most jobs or day rates for splashbacks etc

always add on for adhesives grouts and primers

rule of thumb is 5m to a bag or tub

eg

20 metres floor at 22 quid

440

requires ply laying

so 7 sheets at 30 a sheet supplied and fitted

210

4 tubs adhesive at 16 a tub , i charge my punters the difference between trade and retail for their adhesives and grouts (so a tub of good water resistant adhesive is 25 retail and 9 trade so i charge them 16 lol), explain that you are saving them 9 quid a tub

64

2 bags grout at 9 a bag

18

1 bottle primer from 6 a ltr

6

= 738

i would then round down to the 700 mark inc materials as you are making wee bit extra on the materials so not really losing out etc, but extra for tile trims and door trims if required and stone sealers.

same as rubbish removal and white goods removal for tiling under washing machines etc, charge an hours labour etc for this, theres always the chance to trim the odd door to accomodate new tiles at 15 - 20 a door. then you have the ply and screws to add on if required and a rough price is £30 per 8x4 sheet supplied and fitted which will cover 3m2

hope this helps

andy
 
S

sWe

Here follows an extended edition of my guide to pricing

sWe's guide to pricing

Introduction

I don't believe you can have linear pricing if you want to have a steady income. One price per square meter which is just right for, say, bathrooms, is probably completely off when quoting kitchens, or really large terrazos, etc. It is better to base your pricing on day rates, but there are many things to consider.

It comes down to the following:
  • How long is the job going to take? Smaller jobs take proportionally more time than larger jobs.
  • How difficult will it be? Are there variables which might complicate the job? Will you want extra pay for those variables?
  • How much do you want to make in the end? How much do you need to make in the end?
  • Can you remain competative with the derived pricing?
I have little knowledge of what reasonable pricing in the UK is, or how your tax system works, so you may need to modify the following a bit to better suit your conditions.


The basic numbers

Tally the static expenses relating to your business an average year. These include tool purchases/repairs, trade insurance, tax and maintenance on your vechicle, etc.

Divide the sum by the number of months you work an average year.

Add what you need to make in an average month to have a reasonable standard of living, including tax.

If you plan on taking a vacation lasting, say, a month, make sure to add a months salary divided by the number of months you work an average year.

Lets say, for demonstrational purposes, that the sum you come up with is £2000.

Here's a kicker: Not all your work is spent on things you can charge for. Unpaid time includes doing paperwork, meeting customers, etc.
You need to take this into account.

Say you spend 80% of you working time on things which you can charge for.
Divide £2000 by 0,80 (80%). The result is £2500.
Divide £2500 by the number of days you work an average month (22 for a 5 day week in an average month).
The result is that you need to make £113 a day if you work five days a week, of which 80% of the time is on things which pay, to earn £2000 in a month.

You have to put your pricing in relation to this, as well as the going rates on the market. A day-rate of £130 seems to be common when reading on these forums. If this is the case where you live, and the £113/day applies to you, then all is well, and if you manage to consistently get £130 a day, then you'll end up with a £375 profit every month. That's almost 19%.

If the local day-rate is lower than the £113 you need, you need to either cut your expenses, or increase the amount of time you work on things you can charge for.


Comparing pricing

Lets say you got hired to do a 3m2 kitchen splashback. Lets say it takes you one working day to complete it. If you charge 130$ for it, not counting materials, that's a little shy of £44/m2.

For comparison, lets say you got hired to do a bathroom with a total of 25m2 tiling to be done, and you need to fix the substrate. Lets say it takes you four days to complete. If you charge £130x4 for it, not including materials, that gives you £520, and a m2 price of about £21.


Lets compare a linear rate of £20/m2 + materials, as it seems to be a common price in the UK, with the above method of pricing, using the same examples:

Had you charged £20/m2 + materials for a bathroom (£500), it would've been about right from the economical standpoint we calculated earlier in this post.

Had you charged £20/m2 + materials (£60) for the kitchen splashback, you'd be losing money from the economical standpoint we calculated earlier in this post.

See what I meant about linear pricing being a tad off?


Adding variables


You can add any number of variables to your pricing; those mentioned above are just basic principles.

I'm not going to go into all the details, but based on what I estimated using the above method, I've got a basic call out fee per days work, which is a bit lower than what I want to make per day, but still higher than what I need to make.

On top of that, I've divided my work into categories, for example preparation or changing of the substrate, tiling, etc. Then I add a charge per square metre, which is based on what type of material will be used, and what size the tiles are. I used standard 15x15 ceramic tiles as a base line for pricing. Larger tiles require more attention to adheive coverage and flushness, smaller tiles takes more time cutting and grouting.

If the customer wants patterns other than regular grid patterns, I add another fee per square meter, based on how difficult and time consuming the pattern is.

For special solutions, I charge per instance, square metre, or liner metre, depending on what it is.

I also add fees on an item basis. For example, for drilling in regular ceramics, I've got a fee which covers the wear on my drills, as well as the time spent measuring and drilling. For drilling in porcelain, the fee per hole is higher, to compensate for the heaver wear on the drill bits.

My call out fees and square metre fees cover my labour, basic wear and tear on my tools. Item fees cover the specific wear and tear on tools, and additional time spent. You can include material costs into this, but I prefer to keep them separate.

I've got ALOT of variables listed, which I take into account when pricing. Here are some of them.
  • Total size of wall(s)?
  • Total size of floor(s)?
  • Number of internal corners?
  • Number of external corners?
  • Number of floor drains?
  • Holes to be made in soft ceramics?
  • Holes to be made in hard ceramics?
  • Number of pipes?
  • Size of tiles?
  • Quality of tiles?
  • Width of grout lines?
  • Leveling? Gradient?
  • UFH?
  • Waterproofing?
  • Replace, repair, or reinforce substrate(s)? What type(s)?
  • Removing old tiles? What type of substrate(s) are they on?
  • Will I need to call in other trades?
  • Waste disposal?
  • Renting of special tools?
Etc...

You can add any number of variables to your pricing.


Conclusion

If you, like me, hate surprices, and like being on top of things instead of just charging straght ahead without any further consideration, it really helps to be thorough in all aspects of the game called "The tiling business", not just the tiling itself.

Make a list of variables and prices, and copy it up. When you go to quote jobs, just tick in the numbers, and tally up. Takes a little bit of time to prepare, but you won't have to think much when you go to quote, and it won't take long once you get the hang of it.

Most tilers learn to measure jobs just by eyeing them up. I prefer to be precise.

Just my (many) five cents on the matter. :grin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

j2112c

Thanks for your help Andy that is the sort of thing I wanted to know, thanks for being open on how to break it down. I suppose as you go along you can very quickly price up a job through experience, but starting out I did not want to be too far off the mark, especially as though the quality is there I am still quite slow. If I don't take everything into account it is a poor return for the time.
Ta, John.
 
S

sapperdan

hi folks,
just a question about andy`s pricing thread.
When charging the 22 quid for each metre how do you seperate material from time in that price . As when using marble it will be more expensive.
Do you have a set per metre time rate , then add on material , IE 16 for time and 6 quid for (ceramic tiles )tiles. making 22 quid for each square metre?
If it were marble tiles then it would be 30 quid per metre plus the 16 quid for time making 46 quid in total per metre square etc
Appologies if this seems a little simple minded :smilewinkgrin:
 

beanz

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unless otherwise agreed then rubbish remains the responsibility of homeowner

Just to avoid confusion, discuss with the customer beforehand, as they will not know it's their responsibility, and it'll leave a bad taste in their mouths. If you want to dispose of the rubbish (i do), be aware that you are required to get a waste carriers lisence from the council (speak to other local trademen to see what they do). ;)
 
B

brian c

hi folks,
just a question about andy`s pricing thread.
When charging the 22 quid for each metre how do you seperate material from time in that price . As when using marble it will be more expensive.
Do you have a set per metre time rate , then add on material , IE 16 for time and 6 quid for (ceramic tiles )tiles. making 22 quid for each square metre?
If it were marble tiles then it would be 30 quid per metre plus the 16 quid for time making 46 quid in total per metre square etc
Appologies if this seems a little simple minded :smilewinkgrin:
you should have a price for fixing ceramics and a price for fixing Natural stone(for the reasons like wet cuts,boring holes,sealing)and price accordingly to the meterage.
 

robbbin

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Have a mininmum day rate

eg Customer has kitchen splashback say between 5 and 7 mts easy done in a few hours explain you have to allow a day (you may finish a 1 pm ) have a set figure plus mats

Charge mt rate above 15mtrs

I charge £15 ceramic.......£20 to £25 depending on format size porcelain £25 to £28 anything natural or slate that needs sealing again on size £40 glass... all plus mats as been said split the diff on cost retail to trade Any prep work like ply for floors, doors need a bit off white stuff taken out some making good add to cost what you think is fair
 
D

doit4u

A word of caution on disposing of old tiles etc. if you do this you need a Waste Disposal Licence and if you get caught without one the fines are quite heavy typically £400 - 600.

I normally leave any waste for the customer to dispose of, if they insist on me getting rid of the stuff I get a suitable size skip and then charge for loading and a bit for organising.
 
G

guddieshop

Hi everyone

Just recently finished a tiling course and about to complete my first job for a paying customer thats a friend of a friend groutin it up in the mornin! The shower cubicle works out just under 5m2 with a small brick affect border added aswell! It took me a day and a half to complete as im very fussy and the speed just is'nt quite there yet! What roughly should i charge a day rate of around £150 or should i just calculate the coverage at £20 per m2? If i do it that way it seems a little cheap for the work involved? I would be very grateful for your opinion?

thankyou

Lee
 

beanz

TF
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3
We're not allowed to discuss pricing in this forum Lee, you'll need to gete into the Tilers Forums Arms for that. What prep work was involved, or was the prep already done? Are the tiles Ceramic? Give us all the details, so we can give you more accurate advice. For me, i generally charge at a day rate, guesstimating how long i think a more experienced tiler would take. It usually works out at a low rate at the moment (which sucks!! lol), but it's a good incentive to speed up. :thumbsup:
 
S

sherbert

come up with a checklist for the variable things and the extras etc for when you go and have a look this way you wont forget anything and wont be out of pocket at the end! i know i have priced up a job where the customer rushed me for a price there and then and i forgot to include the materials and ended up doing it for about 200 notes lees than i should (wont make that mistake again!)
 

kilty55

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disposing of waste as already stated is becoming very expensive..waste licence is 190 here for 3 years on top of that a minimum charge of 40 quid a drop at my local tip,personally i think its a ghood service to remove the rubbish but at the moment its hard enough gettin your sq metrer rate never mind 70 quid a job to dump tiles,i leave it with customer.
 
J

jack

anyone have ideas of how to price jobs for high pressure jet washing too? any help is appreciated.
 

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