Another tiling job gone wrong. - Tile Advice

[Kilo]

So, I bought my first home with my wife after saving for about 10 years and have been thrown down the proverbial well by a trader! I am asking for peoples opinions on what course of action to take. I agreed with the trader to fully tile my ensuite and after confronting them about the work not being done properly for the third time, they left. I haven't paid their closing invoice as i believe the work is not salvageable. I had paid for materials only at this point. They took me to small claims within three days and refused to come back! To add a bit of humour, the stated in their claim that I have had a nervous breakdown. Maybe after the case ends up in front of a judge i will. The less slanderous reason was that they understand that their work is up to Brit standards.

To be objective, i bought large format tiles 85x28 and the trader said nothing about the quality or size of tile when they started. The pictures (there are about 80 in total) illustrate why i wanted them to stop. They stated after they walked off that the tiles were 'warped' and they had to create miracles to cut them properly. The tiles meet BS standards and were bought from a showroom. There are numerous tiles that look like they have been cut with an angle grinder with a dull blade. I have since found out that they used a flexible adhesive which i understand is a no no for tiles over 300mm. Some of the grout lines are under 2mm. I broke one of the tiles off to see the adhesive and its not %100 percent covered. The grout lines don't join up. The trims were wasted and were not mitred. Tiles are not flush in places and are not symmetrical.

Can anyone advise on what i can add to my defence/counterclaim? I will have to take all the tiles off and most likely the plasterboard. As i said I have more pics if needed. I have emailed and posted evidence to the trader and quoted the Consumer Act. I would ask the Tile association to assess the damage but they cost £££. Thanks for reading and any help is appreciated.

 

[Dave]

Can i just say first off, where did you get the info saying flexible adhesive is a no no ?
I agree on mitring the trims , I’m not a lover of the straight cut.
chipping can be simply the glaze popping as scribed with dry cutter or from as you say machine cutting. The pics don't show the overall job but i can see your concerns in a couple pics , pipes not first fixed correctly to avoid splitting tiles. Did they do the plumbing as well ?

 

[Kilo]

Can i just say first off, where did you get the info saying flexible adhesive is a no no ?
I agree on mitring the trims , I’m not a lover of the straight cut.
chipping can be simply the glaze popping as scribed with dry cutter or from as you say machine cutting. The pics don't show the overall job but i can see your concerns in a couple pics , pipes not first fixed correctly to avoid splitting tiles. Did they do the plumbing as well ?

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply. Re the adhesive, I looked at the empty bucket they left and it states on the instructions it should not be used for tiles greater than 300mm x 300mm. The depth of tile is 11mm and they did not back butter. Re the trims, to be fair, after debate on who was paying for new trims they said they would change it. However, if you can see from the pics, the bare metal is showing and it looks like they have been chewed. I have over 80 pictures but didn't want to bombard the post. I would understand about the tile chips under normal circumstances, but there are areas where grouting would not hide this. The spacers look like they could not hold the tile and have been squashed in places. I cant get them out of the bed.

Re the plumbing, yes I asked them to plumb in a mixer shower. They have put a T into the basin hot water feed and the copper pipe is 10mm. The copper has been connected with a snap fit to some pex. They explained that they would box the pipe in. A plumber has been in, and suggested they would not be happy with leaving this with a customer. They said that the copper pipe would need to be 15mm and were concerned that (because i live in a newbuild) all the fittings leading to the basin may be snap fits, which could end up in an indoor water feature. I should not have asked them to do plumbing when they are not certified. However, again for their part they should not be providing a service that they cannot complete with reasonable skill or care.

 

[Dave]

Ok , so they have used a tubbed/bucket dispersion adhesive. That is totally not suitable for those size tiles. A bagged cement based adhesive should have been used as this set via chemical hydration and not by dispersion into the substate and tile biscuit and through exposure to air , the adhesive will remain soft on larger tiles as those.

 

[Kilo]

Ok , so they have used a tubbed/bucket dispersion adhesive. That is totally not suitable for those size tiles. A bagged cement based adhesive should have been used as this set via chemical hydration and not by dispersion into the substate and tile biscuit and through exposure to air , the adhesive will remain soft on larger tiles as those.

Thanks for that Dave and the technical information. I can confirm it is a D1 category. I have learnt the hard way about tiling. I guess this alone would vindicate my point about having to start again.

 

[Dave]

Thanks for that Dave and the technical information. I can confirm it is a D1 category. I have learnt the hard way about tiling. I guess this alone would vindicate my point about having to start again.

It certainly isn’t the best but yes wrong adhesive used and warrants you questioning that.

 

[Kilo]

I forgot to ask about the floor! I assumed that because the cuts are straight and the grout lines are 3mm in 95% of the area that it was a good job. However, I looked at their invoice for materials and did some reading. They have put a BAL rapid-mat uncoupling membrane straight onto tongue and groove chipboard. Forgetting that this a newbuild, would this prevent problems further down the line, or should they have put backer board down?

 

[Dave]

I forgot to ask about the floor! I assumed that because the cuts are straight and the grout lines are 3mm in 95% of the area that it was a good job. However, I looked at their invoice for materials and did some reading. They have put a BAL rapid-mat uncoupling membrane straight onto tongue and groove chipboard. Forgetting that this a newbuild, would this prevent problems further down the line, or should they have put backer board down?

That depends on deflection and adhesive used to the bond the matting but bal say its ok ..personally i prefer to use a Backer board like hardibacker.

 

[Kilo]

I have just checked myself...It does look like the data sheet indicates otherwise. This will also mean that potentially I will need to take these tiles off. I should by a good lump hammer.

 

[Dave]

I have just checked myself...It does look like the data sheet indicates otherwise. This will also mean that potentially I will need to take these tiles off. I should by a good lump hammer.

So i see. Hence why i said about adhesive

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Was it actually a tiler you used or a multi trade ?

 

[Kilo]

He trades as a tiler. It is in his trade name that he does tiles and mosaics. However, he states on his profile that he also does bathroom fittings and plastering.

 

[Dave]

He trades as a tiler. It is in his trade name that he does tiles and mosaics. However, he states on his profile that he also does bathroom fittings and plastering.

Ok , let us know how you get on..

 

[Kilo]

It may take some time because the small claims court process can take two months + if it ends up being looked at by a judge. However, I will keep you posted as I wanted to give my splash back a go and will probably end up reboarding the bathroom myself. Thats if I am found not guilty, so to say Thanks again Dave.

 

[TSCTILING]

My humble 2 pence worth is that you should never snag before grouted. A lot of your points are extremely petty, I agree about mitres but lots of lads fix them straight. If I had some one measuring my joints lines I'd pull off just for that. Bad cuts around plumbing fair enough, not the best tilers, fair enough, but you cannot justify not paying. You can hold a retention but my friend if you aren't paying the lads you're a wrong en! 22yrs in the trade still going strong

 

[Kilo]

I like to think I listen to opinions that attempt to deconstruct my argument in the case (sometimes very likely) that I am wrong. In this case, have you not seen the trim? There is bare metal showing from the cut and they don't line up. Plus the tiles are not flush with them. Maybe my points are petty, and i did debate on wether i should pay for what was good. Problem is they went straight to court and have refused to mediate. Which is not cool beans with the consumer act. How can you say i should pay the full amount when they have used the wrong adhesive and preparation for the floor. Maybe a bad comparison, but its like a nurse administering the wrong meds or a mechanic putting the wrong oil in a car. I don't want a tile falling on my head in a few years time.