Screed drying.

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

well i just don't see all this gypsum ,all i ever see is traditional , and as you said in your first post they are causing tilers problems,and you will only have a limited amount of failures then the material will get a bad name and that will be that ,i have seen it happen time and time again in the pool industry with so called miracle materials , it stays wet to long, it has to have a lot of preparation by tilers, and it can't go into wet areas !! it don't sound to clever to me, the only benefit i can see is it can be poured, sorry Alan if we have to disagree as i really respect you as an advisor ,only time will tell who is right mate

 

[Ajax123]

I've always found in the past that new ideas in the construction sector are slow to catch on and takes time to except, do the manufacturers of these floors consult adhesive companys when in the process of development or is it more of a catch up basis.

We did not used to consult or really even talk t the adhesive and flooring suppliers. That was a mistake but hind sight is wonderfully accurate I find. It was also before my time with the company. I started at Lafarge about ten years ago now and quickly recognised the need for inter industry dialogue. I am regional vice president of the contract flooring association and work with the tile association. I also have regular and detailed contact with lots of adhesive manufacturers these days as a result of that recognition. my latest contact is through a tile supplier, tiletown in Derby, who has put me in touch with tile master adhesives who want to produce a gypsum based adhesive for our screeds.

 

[Ajax123]

well i just don't see all this gypsum ,all i ever see is traditional , and as you said in your first post they are causing tilers problems,and you will only have a limited amount of failures then the material will get a bad name and that will be that ,i have seen it happen time and time again in the pool industry with so called miracle materials , it stays wet to long, it has to have a lot of preparation by tilers, and it can't go into wet areas !! it don't sound to clever to me, the only benefit i can see is it can be poured, sorry Alan if we have to disagree as i really respect you as an advisor ,only time will tell who is right mate

In your game Dave you won't see much of it. it dries at the same rate as sand cement in the same conditions unless it is installed too deep. Prep is no different to what should happen with sand cement screeds I.e. clean it, vaccuum it, dry it, comission and run any underfloor hearing and then prime it if required followed by tiling. All of that should be done with sand cement as well. (priming is more critical when using cement based adhesive of coure).

Wet areas come down to semantics. It is designed for use in areas where it will receive a floor covering and for use in areas where it will not remain permanently wet. People often take this to mean bathrooms for example. This is not correct. You would not use it in a wet room shower as it is not really feasible to lay it to a fall. However I can say confidently thath there are several hundered thousands of bathrooms, kitchens and even a few swimming pools tha have been successfully screeded and covered using Gyvlon. I would not Recomend it for.a swimming pool because the management involved in keeping dry long term is hard work and there are easier products to manage. Sand cement or concrete is far more suitable for this application as you know. To say it can't be usedin wet areas requires a deffinition of a wet area. Really there are very few areas inside a building which will remain permanently wet.

 

[Ajax123]

Also bare in mind that not all of the screeds where I have visited failures have been on anhydrite.

 

[Dougs Third Go]

or we could all just stick to the good old trusted hand applied semi-dry standard floor screed and not have all this grief imo as i have said before the americans have done these gypsum screeds and rejected them in the main ,and mark my words the same will happen here :whistling:

at the end of the day Dave, gyvlon screeds are here for at least the foreseeable future, I'm just thankful that we have people like Alan trying to negate possible fixer errors.

 

[Aston]

i am going to be honest here..
i love alan, he's an intelligent fella and a credit to gyvlon but anhydrate screeds are crap.they take an age to dry, water sensitive and the only advantage over traditional screeds is the speed of completion and the ease of pumping rather than manual laying...pile of crap, riddled with issues and that comes not just from me but some of the biggest screeding companies in the uk...

 

[Ajax123]

i am going to be honest here..
i love alan, he's an intelligent fella and a credit to gyvlon but anhydrate screeds are crap.they take an age to dry, water sensitive and the only advantage over traditional screeds is the speed of completion and the ease of pumping rather than manual laying...pile of crap, riddled with issues and that comes not just from me but some of the biggest screeding companies in the uk...

Hmmm! Riddled with issues?? What issues?

 

[Gazzer]

Whether they stay or go, the issue at the moment is that we get the correct info into how to deal with them. We are getting that but I do feel that the screeders are the only ones benefiting.
I was informed recently that in other countries when such screeds are used it is up to the screed company to do the tests for moisture and then they sign it off as ready for floor coverings ??? Is this correct? If so why not here ?

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

another fact i found -out ,was that product producers in the main are only concerned with the sub straights there product is fit for use on!! NOT WHAT MAY BE USED ON TOP OF THERE PRODUCT !! surely more research should be done by material makers in both sides as there could be a list of what not to use as well.......

 

[Ajax123]

Whether they stay or go, the issue at the moment is that we get the correct info into how to deal with them. We are getting that but I do feel that the screeders are the only ones benefiting.
I was informed recently that in other countries when such screeds are used it is up to the screed company to do the tests for moisture and then they sign it off as ready for floor coverings ??? Is this correct? If so why not here ?

In France and Germany and I think holland the screeding and flooring markets work slightly differently (at least in terms of flowing screeds) in France you will often find that the flooring contractor and the screeding contractor are one and the same or at least part of the same artisan group of tradesmen. That means they will dothe moisture tests themselves. In Germany legislation sits to say a following trade takes responsibility for the previous one so the tiler will accept the screed and the issues it may cause. Because of this there is little chance of the tiler taking over the floor unless it has been tested dry by the previous contractor. You do still find tough that the tilers often do their own test as well. In holland something like seventy percent of screed is flowing and over the next four years that will increase to something like ninety five percent or more due to legislation. That means that everyone is so much more used to it over there. The suppliers in Germany and holland also work much more closely with the trades so that things are specified and installed correctly.

The uk market is much more fragmented and none talks to anyone else and everyone blames everyone else. I agree it wold be nice if screeders took responsibily for moisture testing but at the end of the day as long as it is done correctly by someone it really does not matter who does it. The screeder dot forget is often long finished and on is next projects by the time the floor coverings go down so that really puts the tiler in a much better position to do the test at the right time.