De bonded floor - Tile Advice

[Danlow]

Hi everyone, new to the site but have been tiling for around 14 years, in that time i have had zero issues until now😔. Just looking for some advice from the other members.
I completed a porcelain floor installation back in november 2020, over wet ufh, i was told the screed had been down months, i always carry a moisture meter so a week prior to tiling i took some readings, they were showing 12 to 14 % moisture, the follwung week when arrived at agreed date i took more readings that came back 7 to 8%, i double primed floor, laid mapetex matt with mapei adhesive, i then proceeded to tile, after 7 days the floor was complete and solid, fully bedded with no issues, due to bifold doors being delayed i was then booked to re-visit in February to finish off the cuts, upon arrival i was told by the client that the tiles were popping, i was totally shocked and decided to lift a tile, i found small pools of water sitting amongst the adhesive, the adhesive was also yellow and had not set and the matt was damp, it seems obvious that the screed wasn't dry enough and now im faced with legal action, the screeder left no approx drying time to client, and the plumber doesn't answer my calls, i know that a moisture meter doesn't accurately read drying screeds but does a tiler now have to carry hygrometer with them? I haven't slept due to the stress, is this really my fault? Any advice positive or negative would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan

 

[Dave]

Hi Dan. First off , what screed type is it and is it heated. ?

 

[Danlow]

Hi Dan. First off , what screed type is it and is it heated. ?

Hi Dave, was told sand and cement and yes was heated, i think moisture was trapped and when heating went on caused small pools of water under the tile😔

 

[Dave]

Hi Dave, was told sand and cement and yes was heated, i think moisture was trapped and when heating went on caused small pools of water under the tile😔

Ok. Was the heating commissioned as in heating the screed prior to tiling ?

 

[Danlow]

Ok. Was the heating commissioned as in heating the screed prior to tiling ?

I have no information on that, i have asked the plumber for his timings but he said he doesn't have anything and no messages as all his liason with the client were by telephone conversation, i feel im being left out to hang.

 

[Dave]

To be honest, it is down to the tiler to find out if the floor has been commissioned, this gives the floor its first initial expansion and can be used to drive the remaining moisture out ( force dry) , which if the heating was on for a week or so would help achieve that. But did you get informed it was heated or did you ask.
So if the heating is commissioned after tiling and not done slowly this also could cause a stress de-bond. You need to be asking the customer this , because if it wasn’t commissioned properly by the plumber and the customer, then you could have a slight advantage , worth asking questions before they have you over a barrel

 

[Danlow]

To be honest, it is down to the tiler to find out if the floor has been commissioned, this gives the floor its first initial expansion and can be used to drive the remaining moisture out ( force dry) , which if the heating was on for a week or so would help achieve that. But did you get informed it was heated or did you ask.
So if the heating is commissioned after tiling and not done slowly this also could cause a stress de-bond. You need to be asking the customer this , because if it wasn’t commissioned properly by the plumber and the customer, then you could have a slight advantage , worth asking questions before they have you over a barrel

Hi Dave, i appreciate your comments, its good to get some feed back.
I have not asked the question about commissioning, i certainly will be asking more questions from now on, the plumber told me that he gently raised temperature after tiling installation over a period of a week, but like i said i don't know when he began to turn heating on, i did mention to the client that at least 2 weeks to let it dry and settle, but i think he was pushing as Christmas was close and he had no bifolds in at the time only ply covering the opening, the plumber now doesn't respond to my calls, i will ask the client what procedures the plumber took prior to tiling, although hes not responding much and is adamant that i have caused this issue, should the plumber be handing over any signed documents for commissioning? Thanks for your insight👍

 

[Dave]

Hi Dave, i appreciate your comments, its good to get some feed back.
I have not asked the question about commissioning, i certainly will be asking more questions from now on, the plumber told me that he gently raised temperature after tiling installation over a period of a week, but like i said i don't know when he began to turn heating on, i did mention to the client that at least 2 weeks to let it dry and settle, but i think he was pushing as Christmas was close and he had no bifolds in at the time only ply covering the opening, the plumber now doesn't respond to my calls, i will ask the client what procedures the plumber took prior to tiling, although hes not responding much and is adamant that i have caused this issue, should the plumber be handing over any signed documents for commissioning? Thanks for your insight👍

No documentation no. But if it wasn’t commissioned properly it could have contributed to the failure.

 

[Danlow]

No documentation no. But if it wasn’t commissioned properly it could have contributed to the failure.

Maybe its time that documents need to be signed by other parties so that anyone that comes in after doesn't get rolled over😅, i do feel for the client, its a ball ache for everyone, i just think more communication about drying times from the screeding contractor to the client would have prevented this issue.

 

[Dave]

Maybe its time that documents need to be signed by other parties so that anyone that comes in after doesn't get rolled over😅, i do feel for the client, its a ball ache for everyone, i just think more communication about drying times from the screeding contractor to the client would have prevented this issue.

But .... to be honest the Tiler should know these. Its the installation date of the screed you need and whether it was exposed to the elements at all after installation , lengthening the drying process. I’ve had some projects where everyone’s lied about timescales 😂.
in future bin the Mapei membrane and use Ditra. Much better for sand/cement screeds which might still be a tad green.

 

[Danlow]

But .... to be honest the Tiler should know these. Its the installation date of the screed you need and whether it was exposed to the elements at all after installation , lengthening the drying process. I’ve had some projects where everyone’s lied about timescales 😂.
in future bin the Mapei membrane and use Ditra. Much better for sand/cement screeds which might still be a tad green.

I feel ive been turned over, yes i agree i should have asked more questions prior, but to be held totally responsible is unfair, i never use mapei, client supplied, always ditra👌, thanks again

 

[Dave]

I feel ive been turned over, yes i agree i should have asked more questions prior, but to be held totally responsible is unfair, i never use mapei, client supplied, always ditra👌, thanks again

No probs at all. Let us know how you get on and try not to stress too much.

 

[benchwarmer]

If client supplied, what's the problem?
Just don't worry yourself!

 

[BruceJohnston]

If it looks like the client is going to demand satisfaction, you could try to negotiate accepting half the liability & get something signed to the effect that it's full & final settlement of that matter

 

[Dan]

Or if it's the client supplied it, and workmanship is fine, let the client take the hit, it's not your problem.

(Wonder if this Bruce is 'The Client'?) haha