How much do tilers charge? What's the price per Square Meter?

[Dan]

Okay so I'm going to start the ball rolling. I'd like the forum to be handy for all, including those looking for tilers, or even DIY, to see what they're up against compared to a professionally carried-out job.

So let's get this ball rolling.

Let's try and come up with a base rate for tiling work done, in every area in the country. We can generalise a bit while we start off, but perhaps we can edit and re-edit the prices per area, and add more areas that have unique pricing for whatever reason, over time. And publish this publicly when we're happy with it. So traders can see when they're undercutting, and customers hopefully see when they're under paying.

So I'll start this off really generally with a England price, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland (Ireland too separate in Euros perhaps? as we do have Irish on here), then of course London (central then outskirts maybe?).

I'll also need a bit of a list of what might be priced differently compared to other tiles or whatever.

ALL PRICES PER SQUARE METER - OR LINEAR METER

England
Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Scotland​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Wales​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Northern Ireland​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Republic of Ireland​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Central London​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

London Outskirts​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

(Please add other areas to this list if you're from there and it's way off the average)

Can people please copy and paste their own area in this, and give a bit of a guide. We can get an average then, and edit the bits to make it actually useful.

Then we can frown upon those who go below it and praise those who go above it (no frowning or praising allowed).​

 

[Mr Tiler]

Suppose il go first then... £20 per m2 minimum and if stone an easy £30-35 per m2. Any prep work would be min (depending on the graft) £120 day rate and if i go over the days quoted there will be no charge. All private no site involved

 

[jimthetiler]

same as mr tiler....boxing in from £17 per lm and borders from £ 7 per lm.Pipe holes from £3

 

[SUPERTILER]

How it is possible to talk about prices if you not seen job? Another thing --> tilers with different skill and expirience and bla bla bla... Ok. I work in London and almost all works in 1-4 zone and as I based in center I can travel everywhere... I would split tiling works just on few categories:
1) Building construction(majority this is bathroom or en-suit renovation). Always negotiable prices and there is budget but I can give a few examples for bathrooms and en-suits, corridor-kitchen-living rooms floors. Ceramic, porcelain from 25-40£/m2, mosaic 35-40£ m2 or line meter 25£. Marble, limestone tiles 35-50£ m2 but let's say 100x100 little limestones tiles I would never do less then 50£ m2. Skirting 5-10£ line meter. Tanking(waterproof system) 80£ any size bathroom/shower. Silicone/mastic 2,5-4£ line meter..
2) Commercial sites. This jobs always smell miles away and now there is so much to do in London that prices could be MEGALOW! But people still go at this works and of course for this money no one can ask from man reasonable quality ) ok, let's start. What I have pass for last years. Ceramic, porcelain are main materials for this sites and price from 18-25£. Skirting 5-7£ line meter. Tanking 40-80£ room but this is for majority works as I say. Day work on this sites negotiable starts from 140-180£/day.
3) Wet rooms/swimming pools/sauna. Negotiable price if interested pm/me
4) Industrial sites. For me this is number one jobs!!! Why!? money-money There is always different prices. I can say only one as a supertiler I was born for it don't want to talk about income because some people may be shocked. How tiler can earn so much!!?!?? No-no-no! Layer And another thing some customers don't want pay!! Because they think that it is to much money for tiler... But it's ok, Barclays know what to do next....


Another category of works that including build boxes(internal/external), windows, skirting, silicone, mastic, snaggs, splash backs, tile ceilings, panels, access panels, change grout, shelfs, floor leveling(lateks), build wall thickness and extend, trims, cuts 45 degrees... All this jobs I would say based on hourly rate. Example: let's take 6inc tiles and fix them around any window with trim and bla bla bla.. Brick designed.. Let's say for this job we need 2h, but if we are going to do the same job with 600x600 size tiles then we would spend 1 hour time.
P.S. Actually I think that this is good idea, if we can talk about our experience and discuss prices aswell!!! Because a lot of people go at work, they think they can tile but they don't!!! By the end of the working day they release that there is nothing in pocket. Maybe now they know a bit more... Ok, I write everything what I remember from past.. If there is a lot of spelling mistakes please forgive me I am learning English

 

[Raff]

I am base in Reading (south east) My prices are
-ceramic £35 sqm
-porcelain £40 polished £45 sqm
- stone £45 - £55 sqm
-Mosaic £ 50 sqm
- boarder £10 lm
- Victorian tiles £ 130 sqm
+ details
all incl. adhesive and grout

 

[MTiler]

I rarely price on metre rate unless it's a large job. I give a price based on my day rate and how long it would take plus materials. I have a standard day rate for most domestic work and higher rates for Vic floors and mosaic jobs.

 

[Wishiwasatoptiler]

How it is possible to talk about prices iceramic not seen job? Another thing --> tilers with different skill and expirience and bla bla bla... Ok. I work in London and almost all works in 1-4 zone and as I based in center I can travel everywhere... I would split tiling works just on few categories:
1) Building construction(majority this is bathroom or en-suit renovation). Always negotiable prices and there is budget but I can give a few examples for bathrooms and en-suits, corridor-kitchen-living rooms floors. Ceramic, porcelain from 25-40£/m2, mosaic 35-40£ m2 or line meter 25£. Marble, limestone tiles 35-50£ m2 but let's say 100x100 little limestones tiles I would never do less then 50£ m2. Skirting 5-10£ line meter. Tanking(waterproof system) 80£ any size bathroom/shower. Silicone/mastic 2,5-4£ line meter..
2) Commercial sites. This jobs always smell miles away and now there is so much to do in London that prices could be MEGALOW! But people still go at this works and of course for this money no one can ask from man reasonable quality ) ok, let's start. What I have pass for last years. Ceramic, porcelain are main materials for this sites and price from 18-25£. Skirting 5-7£ line meter. Tanking 40-80£ room but this is for majority works as I say. Day work on this sites negotiable starts from 140-180£/day.
3) Wet rooms/swimming pools/sauna. Negotiable price if interested pm/me
4) Industrial sites. For me this is number one jobs!!! Why!? money-money There is always different prices. I can say only one as a supertiler I was born for it don't want to talk about income because some people may be shocked. How tiler can earn so much!!?!?? No-no-no! Layer And another thing some customers don't want pay!! Because they think that it is to much money for tiler... But it's ok, Barclays know what to do next....


Another category of works that including build boxes(internal/external), windows, skirting, silicone, mastic, snaggs, splash backs, tile ceilings, panels, access panels, change grout, shelfs, floor leveling(lateks), build wall thickness and extend, trims, cuts 45 degrees... All this jobs I would say based on hourly rate. Example: let's take 6inc tiles and fix them around any window with trim and bla bla bla.. Brick designed.. Let's say for this job we need 2h, but if we are going to do the same job with 600x600 size tiles then we would spend 1 hour time.
P.S. Actually I think that this is good idea, if we can talk about our experience and discuss prices aswell!!! Because a lot of people go at work, they think they can tile but they don't!!! By the end of the working day they release that there is nothing in pocket. Maybe now they know a bit more... Ok, I write everything what I remember from past.. If there is a lot of spelling mistakes please forgive me I am learning English

What happened to north south divide. I know of a tiler whos charginging £160 day rate for ceramic! Just 10 miles over in the scotish borders. Im still finding my rate! Running at plaster day rate at the mo, would go for the £20 for floors mtr2. Like this idea @Dan

 

[highlandtiler]

I price by the job mainly based on a day rate as I would never price doing a kitchen above worktops say in 3" square tiles the same as one in 12" square tiles. Some jobs are just really fiddly and others - like a bathroom floor of 4 sq mtrs are easy and take less time - however if you cannot finish in a day then your costs mount up for going back the next.

 

[highlandtiler]

Yeah it generally means they're very careful with their cash and don't want to pay over the odds for anything, and then resent handing over a cheque to a bloke with dirty hands

Absolutely right! I am very wary of these people having not been paid by a high flying barrister once - he said " You can try suing me but I think you will find that the courts will err in my favour as I am the complainant"

 

[Dan]

Can we keep this thread on topic.

Just help if you can.

Don't reply if you can't stick to the instructions in the first post.

 

[-=HaZ=-]

My prices have changed so much over the last year
I set up 2 years ago and was losing out on time and money tbh so I upped prices but have found with different jobs its is different with time etc

I've done jobs like 30m² of metro tiling on 21 walls in a takeaway and found I lost out on cash but I've done 700x350 tiles and felt iv over priced

My prices have 2 prices

For packs in 1m² containing up to 20 tiles I charge £22.5m²
For packs containing more I charge £30m²
The time between the 2 can be along time as people will know

Most of my jobs are full bathrooms so plumbing plastering tiling and little bits on boxing out etc

When I pick jobs up like kitchens or floor tiling I just charge day rate of £120 plus materials and have found people are happy with this

It has taken some time to find the right balance of what to charge but I am getting there now

 

[Jon Boy]

I charge the following

Floors
Ceramics £30 m2
Porcelain £35m2
Slate £40m2
Stone/mosaics £45+ m2
All including adhesive and grout

Kitchens or bathrooms on day rate of £140 a day plus materials, because all those sockets/boxing in or Windows slow you down.

Any prep prior to tiling is done on day rate plus materials.eg levelling, sanitary removal, over boarding, skirting removal and replacement etc

 

[One Day]

I charge day rate of 175-225 depending on the 'ache' factor of the work involved. I. E having no space to set tools up, having to walk long distances to and from water etc. Never give meterage prices, I'd rather weigh up how long it's going to take and give a fixed price. If i get done more quickly then extra profit for me. I also aim to make a decent amount supplying materials these days too. Some jobs i can make more supplying than fixing.

 

[andy8758]

After a long time absent, I just tumbled on this thread. I think that some of the prices here are rather high.

Ceramics - starting at £18 psm. Bathroom last week, 4 walls and floor, 25sq m; one window recess, 3.5m of pipe boxing. Walls using 600x300 ceramics in brickbond, and floor 600x300 straightbond. Charged £450 labour (£18 psm) and completed in 3 days - i.e. £150/day.

Porcelain floor - usually about £20 psm. Last month completed 54 sq m floor in 4 days. Priced at £20 psm, £1056, which earns me £264/day.

Natural stone - very hit and miss, price structure usually starts at £30 psm, and rises to £60, depending on work required. In June I completed 26 sq m of 22mm thick tumbled limestone in grand opus pattern and 28 sq m of 400x600 limestone on bathroom walls. Priced at £25 psm for a builder who agreed to do all prep work and seal tiles after. Total £1350, 7 days in total, or about £190/day. However, last month I tiled 600x300 limestone tiles in an en suite bathroom on third floor of a terraced house in Bristol, with all tile cutting three floors down at rear, no skip, garden the size of the bathroom, which had 22 sq m of tiling required. It took me 7 days and was charged at £38psm or just £120 per day. That was an expensive error on my part but we all learn from our mistakes!

Materials. Usually priced per sq m when supplied - so rsf grey adhesive for porcelain floor with 5mm x 9mm grout gap - £8 psm. Stone tiling with rsf white adhesive, and 7x15mm grout gap would be £16 psm.

Day rate - Bath and Bristol £175/day (must include free parking), elsewhere £150. I class a lot of jobs up to 12 sq m as "tile in a day" jobs; i.e. in, set out, prime, fix and grout in one day - as long at tiles are fixed by 2pm, this is achievable. These are excellent jobs to fill in odd day gaps from larger commissions.

Discounts - Friends and family are charged less - not telling you by how much. Quiet periods bring lower prices to keep monthly costs paid. Larger tiling may attract price discounts, depending on what incentives I am given.

Windows/boxing-in/hole cutting. These are all standard problems for tilers - come on guys you cannot charge to drill a hole. I usually accept one window recess and up to a metre of boxing without increasing the price, but actually they are not that difficult, and the extra time taken is balanced by clean walls - a 6 sq m wall with no holes or obstructions should take me about 3 hours at the most, whilst a (metal) trimmed uneven window recess can take about the same amount of time.

Kitchen worktop splashbacks. A tricky one sometimes. I can expect to complete 4 sq m tiled, grouted and siliconed in a day, but sometimes there is a lot of fiddling around fittings, and differing socket heights and window recesses may require some lateral thinking on planning the height of the tiles. I always now charge this on a day rate. I have even tiled a curved wall with metro tiles in a brickbond pattern - again lateral thinking on running break lines like you have to in some wet room floors - customer thought it looked fantastic though.

Additional work: Ditra mat - I usually price to supply Ditra, adhesive and fix as a single price. It allows me to make a decent profit on obtaining Ditra at special prices whilst customers can rarely source the material below £12 psm. e.g. 44 sq m of Ditra supplied and fitted at £18 psm. Just like carpet and vinyl suppliers do! Levelling depends on depth, but again it makes sense to try to supply and fit at a psm price (but beware of any serious depth differences). To provide a 3-5mm level using a flexible self levelling compound I charge around £12 psm.

Competition - there are still guys in my area tiling for £80/day. I suspect some work on site Monday to Friday, but its very difficult in price conscious times to compete with that, so I don't try. Customer service alone makes my prices competitive. Timeliness, keeping promises, politeness, quality work, cleanliness, and accurate pricing seems to give me the edge. We all have off days too, but I try to keep a professional face on my work, and I try to give the customer the result they want - I have even removed and replaced natural stone tiles because the "pattern on the tile does not match the ones around it" - in fact on one floor I allowed the customer to direct where the (6 different) patterns of the porcelain tiles went just so that they were happy with the finished result (and yes some customers are that picky!)

The final word on pricing - I make a site visit on 95% of all jobs. I price according to what needs to be done, and site visits reduce pricing errors. Tiles sizes are only an issue when the surface to be tiled is an issue - if the surface is perfectly flat and sound, even small tiles can be applied quickly, although a 600x600 tile installation will always be quicker than a 100x100 tile. I am more likely to increase the price for facility issues - parking, access and loading, cutting area restrictions, height of tiling, waste, traffic jams (it takes me less time to travel to Swindon - 50 miles - than to Clifton in Bristol - 17 miles) than for tiling problems.

 

[One Day]

I think some of the prices on here are worryingly low! I guess it depends which ponds you fish in but I hate seeing quality tilers earning below average wages. If you're good at what you do and can justify the premium over other "tilers" - damn well charge it and don't be afraid to!

 

[jonnyc]

Btw I price every job I do the same if job within 75 mins of my base .Don't care how big the house is or who client is . If outside that zone I factor in extra travel time .my guys do a shorter actual labour day but more driving and I contra charge the client for that extra travel time in my quote .take it or leave it. When go past 2 hours I charge 40% more and pay my employees equal amount more .plus I pay for b@b or cottage and all food plus travel time . When working overseas on specialist projects whole travel time paid to my guys but I include these costs in my quote . I learnt very early to never take an overseas job just because I fancied going away . There are potential hidden dangers unknown and you are very open when not at home . See my story about South Africa job before you ever take an overseas job !!!! 50 % min labour cost upfront plus book your own fights / accommodation paid for in advance .

 

[jonnyc]

If I charged £130 pp per day as a day rate I would be bankrupt in 4 months. It costs me between 190 and 210 a day to employ my guys before i make my first penny . That may sound high but to get to this figure I have to take in to account not just their gross wage but also employer tax / holiday pay @ 28 days min plus sick pay .i also have say 30 K overheads as example for four of us inc me . This covers all business expenses inc 3 vans / insurance / fuel etcc. So I divide overheads by 4 and that's how I arrive at the figure it costs me to employ my guys. So I obviously price myself out of many jobs from cold calls . But to my regular contractors I think
They appreciate that i can will supply top
Labour and as importantly they know who will turn up on site . My guys have over 70 years working together between us .the only way I can survive is by supplying quality labour required for top
End work.but when a job gets delayed and I have to go out to market to seek work I am pretty stuffed. I can't compete . Just hope I can see my work module through till I can retire

 

[One Day]

If I charged £130 pp per day as a day rate I would be bankrupt in 4 months. It costs me between 190 and 210 a day to employ my guys before i make my first penny . That may sound high but to get to this figure I have to take in to account not just their gross wage but also employer tax / holiday pay @ 28 days min plus sick pay .i also have say 30 K overheads as example for four of us inc me . This covers all business expenses inc 3 vans / insurance / fuel etcc. So I divide overheads by 4 and that's how I arrive at the figure it costs me to employ my guys. So I obviously price myself out of many jobs from cold calls . But to my regular contractors I think
They appreciate that i can will supply top
Labour and as importantly they know who will turn up on site . My guys have over 70 years working together between us .the only way I can survive is by supplying quality labour required for top
End work.but when a job gets delayed and I have to go out to market to seek work I am pretty stuffed. I can't compete . Just hope I can see my work module through till I can retire

with your experience and contacts you could really shift into consultancy.

 

[jonnyc]

I do that quite a lot but unpaid . This is my give back to stone suppliers and always has been . Quite a simple relationship but works . I never cease to be amazed at what supposed stone fixers are capable of .

 

[slythetiler]

Quiet an interesting topic, one i have been surprised at. I qualified as a plumber, and a tiler...before you ask they were both time served courses, totalling 10 years back to back. I spent the first 6months as a tiler, i watching my mentor, fetching, cleaning, scraping! Didnt fix my first tile for 18 months, after the cleaning and carrying i was promoted to "preper".....removing old tiles and flooring, priming, sealing!!!
I asked my mentor why i was given the remidial tasks and he said " i'll tell thee why lad" he was from yorkshire..." if tha' can do wit cleanin' and stuff, wi'owt bother, thee wonna go wrong learnin' trade from tha' ground up. am i reet" (excuse my yorkshire accent but you get the idea)

Interesting to see what you guys have put for tile prices. My prices start from £20pm for ceramics and increase with the type/size of tile.
depending on the job, i will charge a meterage rate to include materials, or a day rate depending on the work involved. I also have standard package prices for full rip outs and installs.
This could include back to brick and restarts in an older property, or re boarding for plasterboard that has deteriorated. A typical average day rate for me is £140, a typical average package bathroom install - not including materials is £1460.
I am based in the north west, just above wales! I moved here 4 years ago and started to do social housing work to get some money coming in. knocked that on the head when i realised i had to tile shower cubicles with no primer or tanking sealer! not prepared to do that!.
My question to you guys is, after reading some of the posts, how would you price up the following.

example 1, Concrete base conservatory with standard DPM, like a ploughed field. 6M square room with 60x60 porcelains.


Also, if you had to prepare damaged floor in a bathroom priot to starting a job, i.e rotten boards, that you could not see before removing the existing floor covering, how would some of you make money on the job, somw have said if the job went over you would not charge any extra? likewise if the render/plaster had blown of the wall. would you get that repaired at your own expense?

Also i was told once by a building contractor, that tilers are ten a penny, anyone can do that!
Which is quite true, i have been undercut on many jobs to the tune of £60 a day!
I like to feel that for my £140 a day, my customers are getting good quality service from a tiler skilled in what he does. And i agree with one comment that this trade needs to be regulated and treated the same as gas fitter, plumbers and such. Whilst we have the TTA, its not really a governing body that can regulate and keep a tight reign on the cowboy odd jobbers that bring our trade into disrepute.

 

[White Room]

Quote;
render/plaster had blown of the wall. would you get that repaired at your own expense?

Job I'm doing at the moment, he initially wanted me to tile on tile, not on your life, tapped the walls and hollows everywhere.
Started to remove tiles and the majority of hollow sounds were from tiling onto lime mortar which had blown, did I charge him for it....yes but did explain the reasoning behind it and why it needed to be removed.
@slythetiler

 

[John Benton]

Quote;
render/plaster had blown of the wall. would you get that repaired at your own expense?

Job I'm doing at the moment, he initially wanted me to tile on tile, not on your life, tapped the walls and hollows everywhere.
Started to remove tiles and the majority of hollow sounds were from tiling onto lime mortar which had blown, did I charge him for it....yes but did explain the reasoning behind it and why it needed to be removed.
@slythetiler

In my quotes I always state that if walls need repairing/boarding this will be charged extra for materials and labour.

Just done one myself where 3 of the walls were shot. I charged them for my labour and did materials at cost. They were happy as they could see the walls were not suitable to tile onto.

I have a little method that helps why the walls need to be suitable and sound for tiling onto. Just give them one box of tiles to hold for 1 minute and tell them to multiply that weight by 3 and imagine that falling on them!!!

 

[juris]

I am base in Reading (south east) My prices are
-ceramic £35 sqm
-porcelain £40 polished £45 sqm
- stone £45 - £55 sqm
-Mosaic £ 50 sqm
- boarder £10 lm
- Victorian tiles £ 130 sqm
+ details
all incl. adhesive and grout

yes! this is prices pro tiler have to get.other extra jobs simple 200£ a day...or 180 cash...this is how much we charge to. In some cases when is comercial jobs can do lower but better to stay on level with those prices before otherways trade going down with cowboybuilders offers. if you do price for window like i show you now on picture its shoul be 200£ on top becose quartz stone tile and 45% cutting in the edge ..and 200£ for shower floor made from tiles...

 

[juris]

this is pic for my last comment

 

[tommy1712]

£200 a day. I am a plumber that can tile with the best but I won't lose money to do the job

 

[seananddonna]

Hi All
I'm in the southwest. I agree pricing is difficult. I generally charge £20 m2 for walls, ceramic or porcelain and £25 for the floors, I don't charge extra for porcelain. I do £30 m2 for natural stone on walls and £35 for floors. mosaics £45 m2, victorian tiling £65 m2. I always add a square meter for window reveals or niche. kitchen splash back's I normally do on a day rate £135 a day. I don't charge for cutting holes, installing tile trim or siliconing. Every job is different, no parking and 120 stairs to climb with all the kit, or outside parking and the tiling job on the ground floor, some you win some you lose.

 

[seananddonna]

£200 a day. I am a plumber that can tile with the best but I won't lose money to do the job

Can't be that good as a plumber, otherwise you wouldn't be tiling, just saying

 

[MW Smith Ceramics]

I don't work on meterage rates ever.......lump sum for labour costs on each job.......i work within a 25 mile radius & no further so I go in at £150 per day plus diesel costs on jobs on my doorstep and up to £175 per day plus fuel if going to the maximum 25 mile radius.......

 

[terrycoe1]

Over the last 6 months I've pushed for doing my own tiling I was a factory manager so I would compare to what I would earn there to earning my own business .I generally look at the job estimate how Long it will take generally not far off ..give half a day or so.. I've won last 4 jobs one being for a plumber who bit my arm off at 140 a day rate to tile a bathroom in standard ceramics I'm south east if I compare my last job 130 a day wouldn't be worth setting up on ur own after you have payed out expenses ie tax ni diesel /petrol etc if I'm ridiculously quick on the job say I quote for 4 days do it in 3 I offer a cash back scheme I don't let on to this till I'm done tho customers like the honesty and most of them say not to worry we love the job where this has happend

 

[the naked tiler]

how can you price without seeing the technical spec on the works. Tiling is not as simple as in the 80s or 90s. There is also the quality of the works. Goin from cheap 6x6 whites to 3mtr x 1mtr 5mm thick porcelnosa tile, high spec. Every tiling job should be priced on spec, quality and tile format. If I work on a price I would earn between £300 to £600 a day, £600 rare. So why should I charge daywork at £120/£150?
I work away from home doing site work and the problems are unreal, lack of materials, change of design, broken tiles, accessories drilled wrong, I could go on. I charge £300 per day and if the meterage is there I bang it out. Or if there are problems its down to others to sort. My price is then not affected and my earnings are what they should be for working away. A extremely good tiler should earn £300 a day,exp and quality. A good site tiler, £200 a day and someone just out of collage between £80-120. No exp needs looking after. Some tile works cant be rushed, and I find it best to charge a little more to cover my ***!

 

[bl tiling]

I work a 25mile radius of Glasgow all domestic customers.
£25 sq metre for wall tiling sometimes more added if there is lots of trim work etc
£25 sq metre for floor tiling onto concrete ceramic or porc
£35 sq metre for floor tiling onto wooden floors
£40-£50 for natural stone floor tiling
£50 sq metre for splashbacks plus £5 for each socket.
Day rate is £150 plus materials.
Having said all that if am fairly busy 7-8 hr day I am usually good for
between £850 -£1150 per week
try not to work weekends
these prices include adhesive grout and trim

 

[Joseph Kover]

no day rate here,price for whole job labour only,materials not included at any case.
advantages: no moaning how many days you work on,no pressure and stress.you re working on good speed anyway.no hassle is priceless.Quality and safety first.no compromise.

 

[Joseph Kover]

same as mr tiler....boxing in from £17 per lm and borders from £ 7 per lm.Pipe holes from £3

So what you do with the pipe hole if they refuse to pay/hole? it's sounds funny.

 

[widler]

It's Madness charging extra for holes , I know I know it costs money to buy hole cutters , but surely pipes have always been there ? Now it's ten times quicker cutting a hole out so basically it's saving you time .
Good god, years ago cutting out sockets and holes was torture , now it's a piece of wee wee

 

[Joseph Kover]

It's Madness charging extra for holes , I know I know it costs money to buy hole cutters , but surely pipes have always been there ? Now it's ten times quicker cutting a hole out so basically it's saving you time .
Good god, years ago cutting out sockets and holes was torture , now it's a piece of wee wee

many times 2 hole just kills a diamond cutter.for 6 quid,its really just deficit +extra typing on the invoice.
i include it in my labour and charge fix price/job. some customer goes nuts to hear something like charging for holes as they think you try to pull out as much you can from the job.just an opinion.
With that effort could charge for grinder usage/cut, tile cutter/cut and adhesive mixer /min

 

[Joseph Kover]

bought a 40 quid diamond cutter,didnt last for 4 holes,the guys in tile depot said its very long lasting.
Sure never believe it.

 

[rob39]

I work a around Ayrshire 25mile radius of Ayr and all domestic customers. Very similar rates to BL Tiling
£25 sq metre for wall tiling again sometimes add more if there is lots of trim work etc
£30 sq metre for floor tiling onto concrete with ceramic or porcelain tiles (extra for wooden floors due to prep if needed)
£40 sq m for natural stone floor tiling
£40 sq m for splash backs plus £5 for each socket.
£45 sq m Mosaic

Day rate is £150 plus materials.
Again try not to work weekends and all prices include adhesive, grout and trim
I visit every job and if it can be done in a day then its the day rate usually anything up to 12 sq m and tiles can be done by no later than 2pm.
I always put a proviso in that the price is for perfect walls (do we ever get perfect walls). Round me their are many homes with shot plaster and a simpler tap on the wall gives me and the customer a clue. I give them a choice of getting their own plasterer in or I batten and board the wall (bathrooms)
Splash backs seem to be the norm at present and are a pain due to being fiddly hence the price. Not sure if my prices are high for the S/W Scotland but the work is steady. I'm booked usually a month in advance

 

[Cstiling]

Has anyone ever priced for putting expansion joints in or trim work per meter . pricing a garage at the moment and they want a price for trim work , something I've never priced separately from tiling to be honest

 

[Fraser Tiling]

I'm based in South Bucks.
Rarely price work by the metre unless very straight forward large areas on good quality substrates.
I price on a day rate basis allowing myself ample time in my estimation.
I quote for materials with an open end on adhesive quantities depending on quality of substrates.
I charge £240 per day on pure day rate, and estimate jobs at the same rate.
I make a little extra on supplying materials, but never get involved with supplying tiles.
Large floors ceramic/porc upto 450mm laid "following the levels" on reasonably flat screeds £35/ metre.
Above 450mm/rectified porc £40/m laid flat/level depending on customers requirements with open end on adhesive.
Large walls about the same.
Obviously you smash your dayrate on large floors, nice if you can get enough of them, most of big floors will have a few bathrooms or ensuites with them, and I usually hold the same rate for the bathrooms. If you can't hit dayrate at 40 a metre on ensuites and bathrooms there's something going very wrong.
These prices work for me and my usual customers have no problem with my rates.
Those rates for materials include standard flex adhesive, grout, plastics and primers.
S2 adhesives, trims, ditra, mosaics etc are all extras.

 

[Darrell]

Okay so I'm going to start the ball rolling. I'd like the forum to be handy for all, including those looking for tilers, or even DIY, to see what they're up against compared to a professionally carried-out job.

So let's get this ball rolling.

Let's try and come up with a base rate for tiling work done, in every area in the country. We can generalise a bit while we start off, but perhaps we can edit and re-edit the prices per area, and add more areas that have unique pricing for whatever reason, over time. And publish this publicly when we're happy with it. So traders can see when they're undercutting, and customers hopefully see when they're under paying.

So I'll start this off really generally with a England price, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland (Ireland too separate in Euros perhaps? as we do have Irish on here), then of course London (central then outskirts maybe?).

I'll also need a bit of a list of what might be priced differently compared to other tiles or whatever.

ALL PRICES PER SQUARE METER - OR LINEAR METER

England
Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Scotland​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Wales​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Northern Ireland​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Republic of Ireland​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

Central London​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

London Outskirts​

Ceramic Floors:
Ceramic Walls:
Porcelain up to X size (help me with the size):
Porcelain above X size:
Stone or Slate etc:
Border tiles (not embossed) per L/M:
Border tiles (embossed) per L/M:
Uncoupling or anti-crack matting per L/M:
Price per plug socket (do we need to go that in depth from the start?):
Price per window or door (can we generalise this to opening and get the same point across? / do we need this?):

(Please add other areas to this list if you're from there and it's way off the average)

Can people please copy and paste their own area in this, and give a bit of a guide. We can get an average then, and edit the bits to make it actually useful.

Then we can frown upon those who go below it and praise those who go above it (no frowning or praising allowed).​

 

[Darrell]

Hi
I am new to this forum I have been tiling for 20 years. 2 years ago I pulled away from tiling so out of touch on pricing. I am in Dartford Kent so I just need to know what tilers are charging. Cheers

 

[Old Mod]

Well @Darrell...... what can I say!
This is the only post if it's kind that exists, started by the forum owner.
If you can use this thread as a yard stick then please do, just be sure to check the dates in the bottom left corner.

 

[Flintstone]

I've just read through this for first time, some right variation! Some bull rubbish as well I recon!

 

[Dumbo]

I am a little upset that I am not getting as much as some of you . So will be moving to a town near you soon .

 

[Flintstone]

Ask the naked tiler where he lives.

 

[Dumbo]

Hi All
I'm in the southwest. I agree pricing is difficult. I generally charge £20 m2 for walls, ceramic or porcelain and £25 for the floors, I don't charge extra for porcelain. I do £30 m2 for natural stone on walls and £35 for floors. mosaics £45 m2, victorian tiling £65 m2. I always add a square meter for window reveals or niche. kitchen splash back's I normally do on a day rate £135 a day. I don't charge for cutting holes, installing tile trim or siliconing. Every job is different, no parking and 120 stairs to climb with all the kit, or outside parking and the tiling job on the ground floor, some you win some you lose.

I do floors cheaper than walls . It's just they are easier and I get more done.

 

[Spare Tool]

Every individual job in every town is different..just lost a floor I priced up at £20pm for 35 m which is cheap, 600x600's, could have done it in three days proper graft, but I thought £450 at day rate ridiculously cheap (£13pm) so went in at £700...
"too expensive, my sons going to do it" good luck with that

 

[mma]

Every individual job in every town is different..just lost a floor I priced up at £20pm for 35 m which is cheap, 600x600's, could have done it in three days proper graft, but I thought £450 at day rate ridiculously cheap (£13pm) so went in at £700...
"too expensive, my sons going to do it" good luck with that

Some people don't know what they are looking at, it'll end up looking like a split faced job!

 

[Dumbo]

Ask the naked tiler where he lives.

He says he works away . Apparently he goes to Liverpool they reckon there is is a local tiler under charging

 

[Flintstone]

I think we're all under charging if £600 a day is his wages!

 

[Just Rizzle]

just been reading through this thread and wunder how some of you guys put bread on the table.
alot of u are saying day rate 120/day and 25/mtr square so the average work you do in a day is 5 mtrs a day.
today and yesterday tiled a bathroom 35 sq mtrs the tiles are v/b 900 x 450 my price for this work is
a 240
b 875
c 40% the cost of the tiles

 

[Flintstone]

A 35m bathroom is two days? Are they 24 hour days?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

No @RayTheTiler has a big trowel!

 

[Dumbo]

just been reading through this thread and wunder how some of you guys put bread on the table.
alot of u are saying day rate 120/day and 25/mtr square so the average work you do in a day is 5 mtrs a day.
today and yesterday tiled a bathroom 35 sq mtrs the tiles are v/b 900 x 450 my price for this work is
a 240
b 875
c 40% the cost of the tiles

Call me stupid but does
A = day rate
B= cost for 25sqm
C= cost for vb job

 

[Just Rizzle]

Call me stupid but does
A = day rate
B= cost for 25sqm
C= cost for vb job

Try the maths

 

[Just Rizzle]

A 35m bathroom is two days? Are they 24 hour days?

9/5

 

[One Day]

Anyone knocking out a bathroom in 2 days is either rushing it, or making me look very slow and making it hard to charge what I charge!

 

[Flintstone]

I just can't get my head round it, id have 1 day grouting, cleaning up and siliconing up. Have you got a labourer? I can't see how it's physically possible.

 

[Just Rizzle]

No @RayTheTiler has a big trowel!

I have used a12mm 500 mm double hander bought from tile trader also have a 20 mm and 8 mm one and yes all the lady clients I work for say I'm quick
The tile used are villeroy and bosh 900 x 450 so 2.5/Mtr squared onto wedi board walls all plumb and mechanicl fixed which we did on Monday also floor tiled so joint half bonded and follow up walls

 

[Flintstone]

How the hell do you load up a 500 trowel for a wall?

 

[Just Rizzle]

Tiled in 2 days

 

[Flintstone]

Looks more like 20m to me !

 

[LM]

He's tiling onto properly prepared walls, so no farting about, what's the problem with doing 15-18 mts a day on walls like that. Gift in my book!

 

[LM]

Nice job Ray!

 

[Just Rizzle]

Looks more like 20m to me !

22mtrs done last November villeroy and bosh blue fading through to white. Bath is a bette custom made 1609x795 retail cost £2200

 

[LM]

Just a question! When you talk about a days work are we saying a days proper graft no arsing about, tea breaks allowed but short and proper? Or are we talking a rather sort of lathargic stroll around the job with all the time in the world for a chat an all the brews you can get? Efficiency is what I'm getting at here!

 

[Just Rizzle]

He's tiling onto properly prepared walls, so no farting about, what's the problem with doing 15-18 mts a day on walls like that. Gift in my book!

Thanks if you prep the job right the tiling is the easy bit.
The walls were ripped back to brick then plumbed using wedi boards 1200x2400 and again fixed using 8mm 500mm double handed trowel addy used tile master ultimate

 

[Just Rizzle]

Just a question! When you talk about a days work are we saying a days proper graft no arsing about, tea breaks allowed but short and proper? Or are we talking a rather sort of lathargic stroll around the job with all the time in the world for a chat an all the brews you can get? Efficiency is what I'm getting at here!

I start at 8 get all tools ready for the day spend a time battening all round and marking my datum lines for my joints etc then I cut my tiles for the internal cuts thenmake my first Mix usually a full bag of rapid spread the whole wall and go for it back buttering as I go. At a bout 12 take a full hour and even have a kip then back on it till 4or5 then home for tea

 

[Just Rizzle]

If you don't believe me then why have I just give Hmrc on Tuesday nearly 11 k in tax

 

[Just Rizzle]

Did this job in 5days a few years ago 2 days prep ditra matting and leveller 3days to tile and grout not a straight tile and every tile could only fit in one place it was basically a 7mt x5mtr olyps jigsaw

 

[Dumbo]

Try the maths

As I said call me stupid or are you being evasive

 

[mma]

Some Tilers my way doing a bathroom in a day, x2 Tilers x1 labourer. Haven't seen their work but I know they are busy.

 

[One Day]

Thanks if you prep the job right the tiling is the easy bit.

And that, gentlemen is the key! Proper prep. Customers sometimes get stressed with the amount of prep i do on a job. But as I've always said; a good tilers job is 70% prep.

 

[Flintstone]

Some of us are tilers not bathroom fitters, I don't prep any walls.

 

[hmtiling]

I push to prep all mine. As above it makes tiling a dream when done yourself. Don't know how dry liners struggle with getting a wall flat and plumb round a window

 

[Dumbo]

I push to prep all mine. As above it makes tiling a dream when done yourself. Don't know how dry liners struggle with getting a wall flat and plumb round a window

I like the acquired skill of plasterers where they get a flat surface and make it uneven and especially a bell flange at the bottom of the wall

 

[One Day]

Some of us are tilers not bathroom fitters, I don't prep any walls.

Tilers should be able to prep ALL substrates in my opinion.
Tilers who can't (not won't - I mean can't) are less able.

A hotel I am working at has a tiler in who turns out a reasonable, not great job.
He got caught spot-fixing floor tiles onto ufh cables. Asked why, he said he knows it needs leveling but I don't do leveling.

 

[Ttt1601]

I'm currently changing my business up, to be aiming at bathroom fitting, with a plumber in the pocket for that side of things, have truely had enough of coming into appalling prep work, all site work is being phased out, I'll be pushing for high class domestic bathrooms, and try to drag my home town forth from the dark ages of 250 x 500 being "big" tiles . Its going to be hard work getting the first few caught on round here but no one Lee is doing it so I figure its worth a go. But even if the large formats don't take off, I want all my jobs start to finish now, me running it and never having to hear "the tiler will get over it" so fingers crossed on a year I maybe be back to enjoying work again

 

[Flintstone]

Impish, that's all well and good and I understand where your coming from but it depends on what jobs you are doing, I'm sure a lot of tilers, myself included do jobs for all manner of contacts as well as my own jobs and normally you walk into a room that has been prepared by the fitter, or skimmed by the plasterer or whatever. Ripping bathrooms out is something I seriously dislike

 

[Dumbo]

I'm currently changing my business up, to be aiming at bathroom fitting, with a plumber in the pocket for that side of things, have truely had enough of coming into appalling prep work, all site work is being phased out, I'll be pushing for high class domestic bathrooms, and try to drag my home town forth from the dark ages of 250 x 500 being "big" tiles . Its going to be hard work getting the first few caught on round here but no one Lee is doing it so I figure its worth a go. But even if the large formats don't take off, I want all my jobs start to finish now, me running it and never having to hear "the tiler will get over it" so fingers crossed on a year I maybe be back to enjoying work again

Jim Clarke is doing complete bathroom installations

 

[Dumbo]

I have said in the past I would love to carry less tools on my van and the only tools to carry are tiling tools but sadly it ain't so

 

[Ttt1601]

Jcrtiling your just up the road from me you get much large format work up there? I do a bit in Salisbury not a huge amount but always seems to be decent quialty when I do

 

[Dumbo]

Do mostly 600x300 and 600x600 few floor boards 1200 long . And did some 800 x 500 and 1 msq before crimbo looked at some 900 x300 last nite . Mostly do high end bathroom work duravit ,hans Grohe etc but some of them still cry about the price

 

[Tile Shop]

Jim Clarke? Thought he died at Hockenheim in '68???

 

[Ttt1601]

They always cry about the price lol, but the fact your getting some big stuff in gives me hope I can push some here, Andover is always a bit behind so hopefully can get it going a bit here soon

 

[Dumbo]

Jim Clarke? Thought he died at Hockenheim in '68???

Thats a conspiracy he needed to get out of his contract with Graham Chapman because he wanted to go tiling in andover

 

[Dumbo]

They always cry about the price lol, but the fact your getting some big stuff in gives me hope I can push some here, Andover is always a bit behind so hopefully can get it going a bit here soon

People go into Tile shops and get sold what they get sold if they go in a shop that pushes a lot of large format that's what they will probably buy .

 

[Dumbo]

Jim Clarke is now living the dream

 

[One Day]

Impish, that's all well and good and I understand where your coming from but it depends on what jobs you are doing, I'm sure a lot of tilers, myself included do jobs for all manner of contacts as well as my own jobs and normally you walk into a room that has been prepared by the fitter, or skimmed by the plasterer or whatever. Ripping bathrooms out is something I seriously dislike

I hate ripping out too! But I equally hate having to tile onto other trade's prep.
That's why I'm so "stuck-up" about what I'll tile onto. I suppose I'm fortunate really that I can dictate to a large degree how I want things done - my way.

 

[Flintstone]

If the jobs allow that level of prep that's great but a lot of the time, the budget doesn't stretch to all new walls

 

[One Day]

It does if they want a perfect job!

(I'm just teasing - i'll stop now!)

 

[Blunt Tool]

Little story first, A big ships engine costing millions breaks down and won't start again, they try everything then call out an engineer with 40 years experience. After inspecting engine for 5 minutes, he takes out a small hammer and taps it once and the engine springs back into life! A few weeks later the owners get a bill from the engineer for ten thousand pounds! The owners phone him and tell him to send in an itemised bill as they can't figure out why it cost so much? The itemised bill turns up a few days later....
Hammer £10.00
Knowing where to tap £9990.00
Know your worth and never sell yourself cheap!

If a customer spends hundreds or nowadays usually thousands on tiles and they still want to haggle with you over pounds and pence walk away!

 

[Just Rizzle]

Jim Clarke? Thought he died at Hockenheim in '68???

runs a garage in leeming bar n yorks

 

[GAZ5518]

It's an old adage but one that sticks with me" you pay peanuts .. "......Well,you know the rest....
I have seen the pricing structure change over the years .. Unfortunately the general public want to pay Asda prices for Waitrose products..Understanderbly ....There are so called "Tilers" out there pricing and getting work at extremely low prices and so setting the standards...and that's what we are up against all the time...
In my area it is accepted that a good tradesman should/will earn £200 plus as a day rate and an average m2 price across the board £50 inc...other costs..(matting/preparation etc) would be added as extras and costed accordingly ...punter either accepts or not....invariably non negotionable....
Sorry ..wasn't meant to be a rant.. But I can't find the delete button to alter !!!...

 

[Dan]

Okay boys and girls. I've made a new blog and have a section for people looking for a tiler. At the top of the section (in the menu) the first page is "how much will a tiler charge me?" How much do tilers charge? » Tile News Blog - http://www.tilersforums.com/tiles/need-a-tiler/how-much-do-tilers-charge/

I'm gonna explain what charges a for. And at the end literally have a spreadsheet type affair of typical prices for various types of tiling, and alter the prices per area. (Or say in it to add 20% for London etc) that figure needs to be discussed with you lot.

Clearly it's a GUIDE and I'll stress that. I'll also go in on the high side. And point out that it depends on many factors and try and list those factors.

It's something you'll be able to then print off and give to customers perhaps. And it's something that we will push in the forum and in the tilers directory etc

So we need some prices writing down and getting this back on topic.

Can you help?

 

[Dan]

Pmsl thanks for rating my post dumb lol

@JulianSidney

 

[Dan]

Ahhhh I've just found out that @JulianSidney was going around marking posts as negative because he'd had a couple marked (genuinely though) on his posts.

How pathetic lol

 

[J Sid]

hehe thanks @Dan wasn't giving at negatives to everyone, if you check you will find I gave out many, many more good marks to posts and the negatives were imho right, as above. can't see many likes on that post above.

if you'd read my post the other day which got support from members I said I would be trying to get these negative review system changed. All I wanted was the ability for anyone viewing your/my profile the able to see why or a link to the thread it was given on. To much to ask / not possible I guess.

any way i guess the improvements' made are an improvement, I don't know as I've been bared from making rating.
cheers Dan all done in the best possible taste

 

[Tile Marble Granite]

Did this job in 5days a few years ago 2 days prep ditra matting and leveller 3days to tile and grout not a straight tile and every tile could only fit in one place it was basically a 7mt x5mtr olyps jigsaw

View attachment 87783 View attachment 87784 View attachment 87785 View attachment 87786

Hope you made good money, looks great!

 

[Tile Marble Granite]

Little story first, A big ships engine costing millions breaks down and won't start again, they try everything then call out an engineer with 40 years experience. After inspecting engine for 5 minutes, he takes out a small hammer and taps it once and the engine springs back into life! A few weeks later the owners get a bill from the engineer for ten thousand pounds! The owners phone him and tell him to send in an itemised bill as they can't figure out why it cost so much? The itemised bill turns up a few days later....
Hammer £10.00
Knowing where to tap £9990.00
Know your worth and never sell yourself cheap!
That's a good one. Feel the same about that!

If a customer spends hundreds or nowadays usually thousands on tiles and they still want to haggle with you over pounds and pence walk away!