Need advice waterproof tile adhesive/grout and tanking - TilersForums.com

[Tonto]

I'm not a professional, just a housewife at the end of her tether. When living in Oz I found out it was building regs that to tile a wall, shower or splashback it had to have a waterproof membrane. It was explained that tiles do expand and contract to a certain degree and the damage from a small escape of water, as in my case because of a tiny hole in the grout, is enormous.

This is the second time I've had to rip out shower and replaster wall all because water came in, as there was a small gap in grout which I didn't spot and didn't realise the damage that it could do, well not until I spotted salty stuff seeping through my son's wall. My plumber/tiler tiled straight on to newly plastered wall without any waterproof membrane, didn't use waterproof or waterproof adhesive or grout. He didn't tell me that there were products that could help stop this sort of thing happening. Is it called "tanking?"

I phoned institute of plumbing a few years back and asked if there were statutory regs. to ensure any tiling on walls had some sort of waterproof membrane, quoting what I knew in Australia. Needless to say he thought I was barking.

On doing some research, thanks to you guys and other helpful forums, I understand that after plastering I should use BAL WP1 waterproofing kit or similar first and thanks to Youtube it shows how to do it - something I think I can do.

It's quite expensive but assume it's the best to use?

I told my tiler that this is what I'm going to do before he starts tiling (again I'm sorry to say he never mentioned a waterproof membrane until I told him).

My next query is that he tells me to get a waterproof all in one adhesive/tile grout. Is that the best option or should it be two separate things. Waterproof tile adhesive and a separate grout. Or is there a product that can do all in one?

Or is it better to use an Epoxy, which I understand can be difficult to use, unless you do small quantities at a time?

Can you recommend an easy to use Epoxy grout and is Johnsons easy clean expoxy grout a good one and if so, who stocks it.

Sorry to ramble on. Wish I had known, what I now know having done some research and what I found out in Oz because I would never have let the first two tilers tile my shower wall in the way they did.

Thank you for your help. Am I allowed to put in my email address in case someone wants to email me direct? It's [email protected]

 

[jimbob]

Can't really answer your questions as I don't know much about tanking, but what I will say is.......if the tiler didn't mention anything about tanking or waterproofing are you sure he is the right person to be doing the work for you??

Hope all goes well

 

[jay]

as above be wary good call jimbob/ hi and :welcome:your shower walls will prob need to be renewed id recomend using cement sheet defo use a tanking or membraine prior to tiling (make sure it is carried around tap fittings watertight ) depending on membraine choice as to what adh is used dont think you need epoxy adh and depending on budget maybe epoxy grout or spectralock recomend you post on here to see if theres a tiler in your area to give you a quote hope this helps :8:

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

tonto it's imperative that you use a tanking membrane like you said under the tiles, mapei are very good adhesive makers and adesilex p-10 isideal for your job www.mapei.co.uk grout should be a seperate if you want epoxy mapei again,have you thought of getting a professional tiler that knows the job in ?? mapei will advise you as well,they are MEN IN BLACK HA HA:lol: GOOD LUCK and :welcome: to the forum

 

[Deleted member 9966]

hi Tonto

Are you still in Oz or now located in the UK? Tanking isn't something that forms part of building regs in the UK, but having two big damp patches in my lounge and hallway from the shower room and bathroom upstairs, I'm a big advocate of tanking.

No grout or tile adhesive is 100% waterproof unless you get into the realms of Epoxy. Tanking is the next best alternative.

If the tiler you're appointing to do the work won't even consider tanking, maybe he's not the right guy for the job.

I know a few tilers who still feel that tanking is a waste of money and so long as the adhesive and grout are done right you shouldn't have any problems. I beg to differ and don't wish to kick the dog for peeing on the carpet again, when actually it was water seeping through the ceiling :mad2:

Hope this helps
GRR

 

[Stan001]

Tonto
I totally appreciate your frustration. <rant mode on :mad2:>
I came from an engineering background into building and tiling.
The build industry and tiling standards enforcement in the UK are a joke (being NHBC registered I can tell you I’ve employed many trades who have never read either the building regs nor the associated BS and EN regs).
Tiling British Standards (only being a ‘recommended’ practice) are a total joke. Especially when you compare to standards that are ‘enforced’ in other countries.
The subject of whether to tank or use a certain spec sealant, adhesive or grout in certain applications should be enforced not recommended. I’m positive your frustrations are shared by the big adhesive OEM’s, pro-tilers and the better builders, even by the wetroom suppliers and other third party suppliers. It is indeed just an open door for cowboys in the UK.
Electrical installations and now plumbing are now being enforced, do we have to wait until lack of tanking and shoddy tiling work not just leaks but leaks on a ring main and causes fire or death. At minimum it causes tens of thousands of pounds worth of household damage – for what – for the lack of a £50 tanking kit!
I am equally mad at the British Standards authorities – not only should tanking installation be clearly specified and enforced per specific situation but then the authorities want to charge hundreds of pounds (and more) for us to obtain them! … these are regs that they would like us to obey but don’t make it practically economic for us to practically obey – its unbelievable. All of us tilers should be able to get a legal free copy of BS5385 sent to our desk for the cost of a phone call, it should be government sponsored not government charged! Whereas the building regs can not only be purchased in paper at reasonable cost but also downloaded free off the internet by anyone. <rant mode off>
For now –
get rid of your tiler, employ a tiler off this forum (they are not fly by nights and know what they are doing), you could have a go at the tanking yourself once you get yourself a good wall back (ask a builder or tiler to put in backerboard if your plasterboard is now mush – for the extra cost its worth it) –a tanking kit, for a single shower should cost you £50 to £100 (and should have all the bits in there) – you sound practical, you’ll probably even enjoy putting it in if you don’t want your tiler to do it.
Good luck.
Stan

 

[Tonto]

Thanks for your advice. I will "tank" but can you tell me should I use a combined waterproof grout and adhesive, in which case any recommendations. I understand water resistant is not the same as waterproof! Or should I use separate waterproof adhesive and grout? And if so, can you tell me the best products to use. Or should I go down the Epoxy grout (assuming my tiler knows how to use it?) and has anyone used the Johnsons easy clean epoxy grout or something similar that I can buy over the counter. Thanks.

I can't understand how some people think waterproofing or using waterproof membrane isn't important on a shower wall or any wall that's exposed to water. If what they told me in Oz when I was living there is correct tiles do expand and contract (even if you don't notice it) and if you have the slightest leak, as in my case a tiny hole in the grout, or say a leak from the actual shower fitting, doesn't it make sense to do as much as you can to alleviate the possibility of water seeping through to a party wall?

How many kitchens/bathrooms have you seen - like mine, that the tiles on the splashbacks are shot - all because I wasn't advised that something could be done, even if it meant costing a little extra?

Thank you all for your advice.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

there is no combined addy/ grout thats any good, now go to mapei as i said ,the web sites on my last post!!!!

 

[beanz]

If you're tanking anyway, i'm not sure i see the benefit of using "waterproof" addy and grout!?! As long as you use cement based products, they won't degrade, and your tanking will stop the water going any further.
I haven't used a membrane yet, so can't comment on the amount of material you get in a kit, but the rubber paint type of tanking kit i bought for about £45, only gives you enough tape etc to tank the bottom metre..

 

[CON5933]

:welcome:i'm thinking your 'tiler' wants to turn up with some all in one tile and grout adhesive in atub....you won't find many people on here using this type of product....
I would strongly suggest you get another opinion from another tiler before you commit..
I'm sure there will be a tiler on this forum close enough to your location..
As far as tanking is concerned, i always advise it, even with cement boards

As far which adhesive & grout, as Gooner said, have a look at the Mapei website..