Laying Porcelain

[Stan001]

I was about to post up that we are all being a little presumptuous given we don’t know the full circumstances. BUT … having see those pictures I would say the guy is neither tiler, plumber nor builder. Nothing that the guys here don’t know but the tiling could have been done better than one of my kids and the microbore is a complete ?7%2”!!??ing mess. The routing is beyond belief, he is clueless. I bounced a plumber off my site for poor work, and replaced him pronto, one of the best things I did, and I will never procrastinate again. Take loads of photos and pay him a fair price for the parts that have been done properly and don’t pay him for the rest. He has actually cost you money for time and materials. From the few picture I’ve seen I’d say trading standards will stand by you (you can always check with them quickly) …. so honestly, in my opinion – go let him whistle for his money via the small claims or whatever. His job is crap and he shouldn’t be working on tiles or plumbing – full stop!!! (this is not about price! … he cant do the job its that simple … and based on the quality of his work I’d personally doubt that the prep work is done correctly too!) … get rid of him and don’t pay him for the shoddy work – not one penny!!!

 

[Deleted member 1779]

Oh dear!

 

[upsetjoe]

Thanks Stan.

I am actually thinking of seeking legal help to get this guy out of business. Is there any trade body I can contact to show them how nice this guy works?

 

[Stan001]

I would speak with trading standards first then building control. I’m a builder and I’m also a tiler (thus my opinions on your job). The ‘problem’ you have is that structurally even my own building control inspector and NHBC inspector may have PASSED that job! … yup they would! Because even though the work is totally shoddy it COULD be to standards and structurally sound. (I personally doubt it but it technically could – you could test him by asking about his prep work). Many second fix items on top of the structural core of the building the ‘authorities’ don’t care about. Its up to you if you want your house to look like a mess. What you have to show (and your photos indicate it to me) is that the job is not to normal acceptable standards. I’m not just talking tiling British Standards or plumbing standards, but a standard you would normally expect a normal tiler or plumber to complete the job to (i.e. neatness etc. soft issues not perhaps covered in a performance spec.). You can also show those photos to someone in a decent plumbers merchants or a friendly plumber and ask if the microbore is routed normally (i.e. to industry acceptable standards). From what I see, it is not.
His work is so shoddy I really would question him ref his prep of walls before tile and floor before tile. Can you feel / measure more than 3mm of bounce? What adhesives did he use? (I cant see any addy from the edges of the tiles, so its super neat back-buttering or did he dot and dab or glue them on?). Has he pressure tested that plumbing at first fix before he fixed tiles? Did it also flow test (or is it crimped), what is the floor spec now? Where does that soil pipe go to? External grid or SVP? If SVP has he done a SVP test before he embeds the waste pipes in tile etc?
The hot and cold are probably ok to the basin as they are hidden by the pedestal, even though they look a bit dodgy now, they are probably ok. The tiling around is a complete cods up isn’t it. The waste pipe could be at issue only ref any leak between it and the SVP if that’s where it goes. You need to get the tile sorted before anyone puts the pedestal on it. Pic 36 seems to be broken plasterboard, that’s a normal snag and fixed with one coat or mutifinish within minutes. So you have to sort out the stuff that is really bad vs stuff that’s just not nice to the eye. Trading standards or your local building inspector can advise. You local building inspector can be found by calling the building control department at your local council.
My advice, ref getting the guy put out of business is don’t bother with your own time and money. I know it sounds like horrible advice (and I hate saying it) but don’t waste your money and time on a battle you will never win. Spend it on a good plumber and tiler and just put it behind you. Take advice asap from an inspector and don’t let this ‘builder’ bully money out of you until you’ve been through that process. (I’m in Hampshire and you’re in London or I would have PM’d you some contact numbers – call building control asap because there is a waiting list to get a meeting, which is free! … but it is like trying to meet the pope).
Its gonna be hard for you to remove the emotion out of this but you have to - be a hard head - polite and tough.

 

[jay]

holly cra//// an he was asking for more money he should have been paying you ////////are the floor and wall meant to line up //if so he failed :8:

 

[upsetjoe]

Hello everyone how are you today? :smilewinkgrin:

One quick question. Can you see on these pictures that wall tiles are not levelled at all?

I know they are not but I wonder if a pro can see they aren' t from those pics.

Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 9966]

when you say level, what do you mean? flat against the wall? or the grout levels don't line up?

 

[DHTiling]

Grout joints are no where near lined up...:smilewinkgrin:..

Do you mean lips joe..?

 

[upsetjoe]

I mean flat against the wall, verticality and horizontally alignment and plumbed.

@Stan: my tile retailer just told me that there is no way a tiler needs 10 bags of 20 kilos of adhesive to lay 35 square meters of tiles. I hope it answers a few of your technical questions.

 

[Stan001]

consumer information - Trading Standards Institute

Consumer Direct

 

[mattster]

I mean flat against the wall, verticality and horizontally alignment and plumbed.

@Stan: my tile retailer just told me that there is no way a tiler needs 10 bags of 20 kilos of adhesive to lay 35 square meters of tiles. I hope it answers a few of your technical questions.

i disagree
600X300 tiles u should be using a 10mil notch trowel and a bit of back buttering this generally gives you aproxx 4m2 a bag coverage

also you didnt say if the prices given included materials which can account up to a third of the whole cost depending on the brand

but yer crap quality job

 

[Spud]

I mean flat against the wall, verticality and horizontally alignment and plumbed.

@Stan: my tile retailer just told me that there is no way a tiler needs 10 bags of 20 kilos of adhesive to lay 35 square meters of tiles. I hope it answers a few of your technical questions.

dear joe, although i sympathise with you for the terrible job you have had done in your bathroom, you are totally unrealistic in your expectations of what you should be paying for a decent tiler in the London area ,the prices your tiler quoted you are far from extortionate had he been producing first class work, i understand you being so miffed when he has dared to ask you for any money with the job he has done but unless you want another disaster be prepared to pay in the region £30-35 per sqm plus materials it is also definately possible to use that amount of adhesive if the tiler was straightening out walls and floors prior to installing the tiles and achieving a solid bed when fitting the tiles
you seem hell bent on only paying £20 per sqm for fitting large format porcelain tiles when this is standard format ceramic price, be careful what the man in the tile shop tells you these guys are salesmen not tradesmen good luck with rectifying your bathroom Gary

 

[upsetjoe]

dear joe, although i sympathise with you for the terrible job you have had done in your bathroom, you are totally unrealistic in your expectations of what you should be paying for a decent tiler in the London area ,the prices your tiler quoted you are far from extortionate had he been producing first class work, i understand you being so miffed when he has dared to ask you for any money with the job he has done but unless you want another disaster be prepared to pay in the region £30-35 per sqm plus materials it is also definately possible to use that amount of adhesive if the tiler was straightening out walls and floors prior to installing the tiles and achieving a solid bed when fitting the tiles
you seem hell bent on only paying £20 per sqm for fitting large format porcelain tiles when this is standard format ceramic price, be careful what the man in the tile shop tells you these guys are salesmen not tradesmen good luck with rectifying your bathroom Gary

Hi Gary,

That's not true. Obviously you haven't ready the thread.

I was ready to pay up to £30 a square but that guy came back to tell me he wants to charge over £35.

You have to know that there are laws in this country to protect consumers and you cannot simply push prices up because you haven't got the skills to lay porcelain. Pushing the price up when you already started the job, especially for a job like this is not only wrong, it is illegal. Period.

Once you have agreed with your client and laid the first tile you are bound by law to finish the job. If you change your mind and don't want to do it because of unforseen circumstances i.e. tiling porcelain instead of tiling ceramic, negociate or go home. But you cannot simply double the prices when you've already been fiddling around with the surfaces and con you client of 10 square meters.

On your concerns about London prices, you may charge up to £40 in the West End but down here in South East London I can assure you that all the companies I have contacted do not charge more than £20/25 + materials to do the job and they don't have a problem tiling porcelain either. I have actually problems finding a company that charges £30+materials a square at the moment. :icon9:

I didn't know you had to straighten prep plasterboard walls and chipboard flooring...that's new to me.

Kind regards.

 

[dagger]

Hi Gary,

That's not true. Obviously you haven't ready the thread.

I was ready to pay up to £30 a square but that guy came back to tell me he wants to charge over £35.

You have to know that there are laws in this country to protect consumers and you cannot simply push prices up because you haven't got the skills to lay porcelain. Pushing the price up when you already started the job, especially for a job like this is not only wrong, it is illegal. Period.

Once you have agreed with your client and laid the first tile you are bound by law to finish the job. If you change your mind and don't want to do it because of unforseen circumstances i.e. tiling porcelain instead of tiling ceramic, negociate or go home. But you cannot simply double the prices when you've already been fiddling around with the surfaces and con you client of 10 square meters.

On your concerns about London prices, you may charge up to £40 in the West End but down here in South East London I can assure you that all the companies I have contacted do not charge more than £20/25 + materials to do the job and they don't have a problem tiling porcelain either. I have actually problems finding a company that charges £30+materials a square at the moment. :icon9:

I didn't know you had to straighten prep plasterboard walls and chipboard flooring...that's new to me.

Kind regards.

hello,

i am in S. London, and i would charge £**m2 plus materials for your job.
but if i did it it would line up, stay up and i would guarantee it as well.

but i have a sign written van, a website, an insurance, a business address etc.

personally, i do not know any "proper" tilers in london that would charge £20 per m2 unless it was 100m2 plus!

that said i hope it works out for you.

good luck

Dagger

oh and i would have put matching Silicon in the places he has put grout incorrectly!, naught naughty cracky cracky..

different type of job but when setting out proper tilers get thier lines right:

 

[Spud]

that surprises me Joe as i have tiled several tile showrooms in south london and get recommended by these companies so I know the market in south london ,if you read my post i did not suggest that the tiler who did the work for you was right to up the price half way through the job and i feel sorry for you with the standard of the work you recieved ,if you have found a bonefide company that charges 20-25 for this type of work and you are confident that they will produce the job you are looking for then you should use them good luck with rectifying your bathroom

 

[upsetjoe]

hello,

i am in S. London, and i would charge £**m2 plus materials for your job.
but if i did it it would line up, stay up and i would guarantee it as well.

but i have a sign written van, a website, an insurance, a business address etc.

personally, i do not know any "proper" tilers in london that would charge £20 per m2 unless it was 100m2 plus!

that said i hope it works out for you.

good luck

Dagger

oh and i would have put matching Silicon in the places he has put grout incorrectly!, naught naughty cracky cracky..

Hi Dagger,

I do not contest the fact that 20 is cheap, I didn't think he was being honest and doing a good job for the few tiles he managed to lay and I was going to get rid of him anyway.

When do you start? :8:

 

[dagger]

i would rip all his work out and start again, his lines are wrong so if you follow them it will all look wrong!

not what you would want, so if you are interseted in a better job, pm me your number.

Dagger

 

[upsetjoe]

i would rip all his work out and start again, his lines are wrong so if you follow them it will all look wrong!

not what you would want, so if you are interseted in a better job, pm me your number.

Dagger

Everything will have to go obvioulsy. I have kept them for the surveyor to have a look at and take a few more pictures to show you how it looks like when you put a leveller on. :lol:

Thanks for your offer mate. I will contact you if I need you.

 

[dagger]

good luck!

 

[Gazzer]

I would like to see pics of the new tilers work actually. I think its cheap for a tiling company as oppossed a sole trader. Maybe i have misread but i await further info.

 

[heavytrevy]

Dunno bout you guys but I charge a set price for bathrooms unless Im working for a builder and there are other open areas that require tile.

It not possible to charge a cheap meterage rate and make money doing bathrooms unless they are huge.

Those 300x600 wall tiles do require heaps of packing even on the flattest of walls.

Regards
Trev

p.s As for his tiling work I agree its shocking, just on that alone I would get rid of him.

 

[upsetjoe]

I had a call today from my tiler/plumber whatever his job is... He said that his 'boss' was informed that we were stopping payments and he was coming over to get the money. He did not show up so I called him back and he said that he was coming at 6 O'Clock and that he wants his money, that he will get his money either from me and or my wife and that he has been doing this 'game' for 30 years and that it's not now that he will be done.

I reported what happened to my local Trading Standard officer who is handling the case and he said it was now police matters because you cannot barge at some people place and make threats to part with their money. I called 999 and they said that if he shows up I have to call the police straight away. I also informed the neighbours to keep a look out and told them he is not allowed to enter the premises and that if he shows up they should call the police which they agreed to do.

This is how it goes ladies and gentlemen, and it is a legit company, they advertise on the internet and they have a van with their details on it.