Tiles lifting - heated floor

[Manor Jump]

Hi all,

I’m hoping someone can help.

in June 18 we had some tiles fitted to the kitchen and hall, along with electric underfloor heating.

the tiler used insulation pads, then applied the electric matting, and the tiles were stuck to that surface.

We were instructed not to turn in the heating for some weeks , and then gradually increase it by one degree a day. As it was June we didn’t need the heating for some time. It must’ve been about 3 months later before we used them.
About 6 months ago a couple of the tiles started making a hollow noise when walked upon. This has quickly spread. Most of the tiles are now effected, the grout is cracked in a lot of places, and you can even see movement with some of the tiles.

The tiler did return to look initially, but on setting the extent of the problem he’s blamed the heating and is now refusing to answer calls.

I’m keen to see if we can fix this ASAP, before tiles start cracking. I’ve bought some fix-a-floor adhesive after searching For people with similar problems but I’ve not been able to apply it myself as the grout is only 2mm thick.

Can anyone please offer

A) any advice on how to cut holes in 2mm grout without damaging the tiles, and then squirting in the adhesive?

B) offer any other advice on how to fix the problem?

C) be willing to help resolve the issue? ( I’m based in north Manchester)

Any help at all is appreciated

thanks

 

[Dave]

Hi.

how big an area is it. ?

 

[Manor Jump]

About 27 sqm of tiles went down. Roughly half is affected, maybe less.

 

[J Sid]

Can you lift one of the loose one and take pics of what's under the tile?

 

[Manor Jump]

I expect one wild come up fairly easily, but I’m worried about leaving a hole in the floor because it wouldn’t be able to get it back down right

 

[Dave]

About 27 sqm of tiles went down. Roughly half is affected, maybe less.

ok , were the skirtings removed before commencing?

 

[J Sid]

I expect one wild come up fairly easily, but I’m worried about leaving a hole in the floor because it wouldn’t be able to get it back down right

You really need to see what's been done under the tile. Are the wires completely covered with adhesive or levelling compound?
Has the tile just not stuck to the adhesive
Your fixing method, if there is one, depends on why its failed.
If the tile is loose clean it and it will go back down fine

 

[Dumbo]

As @JulianSidney says we really need to see what's going on to advise the best way forward

 

[Manor Jump]

Skirtings remained in place.
Ok thanks, I appreciate it’s hard to diagnose remotely, and even more so if you can’t see it. There’s one now that’s “crunching” under foot, so I’ll give that one a try and get back to you.
I’ve got some suction cups. Is that the best way to try and lift it? If I break it I’m screwed as I have no spares.

 

[Dumbo]

Skirtings remained in place.
Ok thanks, I appreciate it’s hard to diagnose remotely, and even more so if you can’t see it. There’s one now that’s “crunching” under foot, so I’ll give that one a try and get back to you.
I’ve got some suction cups. Is that the best way to try and lift it? If I break it I’m screwed as I have no spares.

If it's loose it may well lift with cups depending on quality of cup and texture of tile . But to be honest you're going to need some tiles

 

[Tony_C]

Sounds like you're screwed anyway to be honest. Lift it and see whats under there, leaving it down guessing you will be no better off.

Give the ties a knock and see if they sound hollow all over. I think i know what my money is on considering the tiler will no longer acknowledge you

 

[Manor Jump]

If it’s that bad (needing new tiles, likely all need lifting), then I’m going to need the help of a professional! Any advice on how to find a good reliable tiler in the North West?

They sound mostly hollow all over. It’s weird, they definitely didn’t start out like that, but it’s rapidly getting worse now.

Do you suspect dot and dab? He assured me he didn’t do that, and I believed him.... but something is causing this problem.

 

[J Sid]

Really no point guessing, lift and look but my pennies are on start again, sorry

 

[Tony_C]

Do you suspect dot and dab? He assured me he didn’t do that, and I believed him.... but something is causing this problem.

At a guess I do suspect that yeah. Something is causing it and you know the best way to find out what 😉.

As for finding a tiler you can check the directory on here or advertise the job here. There are also means for this on social media pages too 👍
[automerge]1576705103[/automerge]
That's 3 votes for get one lifted!

 

[Manor Jump]

Ha, yeah, I’ll need to line up a tiler first. There will be massive blow back if I make a hole in the floor and it can’t get sorted post Christmas! I will lift one and update here though.

If the tiler is found to be at fault I expect it’s not an easy thing to resolve. Possibly involving small claims court or something similar.

What bothers me most here is that I’m likely to now be left with a bill greater than it cost to fit them. I’ll need replacement tiles (they weren’t cheap) and I’ll need to pay someone to lift them up, make the area good again ready to tile, and then to fit. Makes me feel sick at the thought.

 

[Dumbo]

If it’s that bad (needing new tiles, likely all need lifting), then I’m going to need the help of a professional! Any advice on how to find a good reliable tiler in the North West?

They sound mostly hollow all over. It’s weird, they definitely didn’t start out like that, but it’s rapidly getting worse now.

Do you suspect dot and dab? He assured me he didn’t do that, and I believed him.... but something is causing this problem.

If they've been dot and dabbed you could tell using a thermal imaging camera . The dots will show up .

 

[CJ]

do you know what make of insulation panels??

 

[Dave]

Just a thought , it could also be an expansion issue if a perimeter joint isn't there to allow the thermal expansion.
Either way the floor is now de-bonded and needs to be rectified, I’d personally leave it to after xmas , so you dont have tiles missing during the festive period.

 

[Sean Kelly]

I feel for you.

Does the underfloor heating still work? I ask because if there are voids (gaps) under the tiles then the chances are that the heating cable will burn out.

Do you have any idea of what adhesive was used.
Flexible Bagged adhesive mixed with water is good.
Ready mixed adhesive in a tub is bad.

If the tiler did not pour a self levelling compound over the underfloor heating cable then the the cable will be unusable when the tiles are removed (as the cable will be stretched during the tile removable process).

 

[Manor Jump]

Thanks for the replies. I’m not sure what a perimeter joint is.

He definitely used flexible bagged adhesive, I bought all the gear, he just supplied the labour (which I think might make unlocking this even more messy).

There was no levelling compound used for sure, apparently it wasn’t needed as the wiring wasn’t thick.

The heating does still work, but I’ve not used it for months for fear of making it deteriorate even quicker.
I’m not surprised we’ll lose the heating. We didn’t really use it that often. We only installed it because we were worried about freezing cold tiles, but actually the insulation matting stops the floor from getting too cold anyway.

 

[Bill]

I can have a butchers at it on Monday if you like..... not promising to fix it before New Year though but it might ease your mind during the festivities.

 

[Manor Jump]

Tom, that would be absolutely amazing, thanks! Just figuring out our next move would be great. I’m sure it’ll last until the New Years

 

[Manor Jump]

Tom, that would be absolutely amazing, thanks! Just figuring out our next move would be great. I’m sure it’ll last until the New Years

Tom thanks very much for heading over yesterday. It was great to get some insight into what the problems could be as well as chat about potential fixes. I’ll get started on tracking down some replacement tiles so we can lift one and take a real look.

thanks again