Porcelain Tiles - Problems! - Tile Advice

[Time's Ran Out]

Chips are new!
He must have come back in the night and done them.

 

[Flintstone]

Chris, what do you want to here ?
You were given good advice by some great tilers and you ignored it all.

 

[Chris101]

Apologies all.
Did not ignore advise at all - With all your comments we went back to the PM and advised him of all the issues and asked for a new tiler while stating all the issues you all advised on.

The PM didn't change the tiler but got him to pull up the odd tiles initally laid and then laid the mebrane and was suppose to use SLC in afreas to get the floor all level however these issues are all of last week when he finished the job.

Anyway the end result is that most of the floor is at an angle of 3mm-5mm.
The main issue is my entertainment units that sit under and next to the TV are at a noticeable slant from the wall.

The construction company has offered to pay compensation of £800 and to take up and replace the tiles that are noticeably unlevel and where the grout lines are not consistant (the tiles were rectified)...

The construction company knew before they took on the job that the only reason we were redoing our kitchen floor was due to the fact that 4 years ago another construction company who carried out the extension work, did a poor suspended floor which meant the tiles were starting to get loose and the grout lines were coming apart...

Is £800 plus taking up a few tiles (is this a safe option to take up tiles already on a membrane) a reasonable compensation offer?

 

[One Day]

Well you'll have £800 to put toward paying someone to take it all up and do it properly when it fails ultimately!

It's easy to sit here and give advice but it's your stress levels and headaches. I'd suggest you go with whatever "feels" right for you.

 

[John Benton]

I don't see how these things weren't picked up the second time the tiles were laid. You had the same problems the first time they were fixed as I recall. The process that the fixing goes through from start to finish, each step could have been checked by yourself and brought to the PM's attention, or checked by him as the installation took place.

Level floor - check with straight edge and spirit level or floor laser level
Tiles fixed - check for lippage and joint widths - remove and replace tiles you are unhappy with
Clips removed - check for chips - remove and replace chipped tiles
Grout tiles once you are happy the above has been carried out
Pay company

 

[Chris101]

I don't see how these things weren't picked up the second time the tiles were laid. You had the same problems the first time they were fixed as I recall. The process that the fixing goes through from start to finish, each step could have been checked by yourself and brought to the PM's attention, or checked by him as the installation took place.

Level floor - check with straight edge and spirit level or floor laser level
Tiles fixed - check for lippage and joint widths - remove and replace tiles you are unhappy with
Clips removed - check for chips - remove and replace chipped tiles
Grout tiles once you are happy the above has been carried out
Pay company

Unfortunately it did not work like that.
We paid a construction company to carry out the whole kitchen re-renovation.
They supplied the tilers and as both my wife and I work full time, they were left to it until we were able to inspect at the end of the day...

 

[John Benton]

Unfortunately it did not work like that.
We paid a construction company to carry out the whole kitchen re-renovation.
They supplied the tilers and as both my wife and I work full time, they were left to it until we were able to inspect at the end of the day...

Hence me stating that the PM could have checked whilst you were out at work. Maybe he thought it was acceptable.

 

[Chris101]

Hence me stating that the PM could have checked whilst you were out at work. Maybe he thought it was acceptable.

He initally was indenial to the problems and thought we was making a meal of it.
The tiler and PM both now agree that the tiling/floor is of poor quality and hence the compensation.
Just not sure if the £800 plus taking up a few tiles will be a) a good pay out for the issues b) if we have a few tiles replaced, is there any risks of other issues propping up?

 

[John Benton]

The problem with tiles that have lippage is that when you remove the individual tile and replace it to the same level as the next tile, the opposite end will be raised and create a lip at the other side and so on.

I would insist that the whole lot is removed and replaced at their expense and done by a an independent tiler, preferably someone who knows how to level floors and fix tiles correctly. It would be more expensive to take out the kitchen once it's been fitted

 

[Chris101]

The problem with tiles that have lippage is that when you remove the individual tile and replace it to the same level as the next tile, the opposite end will be raised and create a lip at the other side and so on.

I would insist that the whole lot is removed and replaced at their expense and done by a an independent tiler, preferably someone who knows how to level floors and fix tiles correctly. It would be more expensive to take out the kitchen once it's been fitted

I am trying to avoid taking out the whole floor unless we relaly have two based on two reasons - Kitchen is due next week and the week after our baby is due - we just want to be done with all this as quickly as possible while not having any major future issues to be left with.

The grout lines while they range from 2mm - 5mm, is somthing we can live with it as it is only really noticeable if you really looking for it and same goes for the chips.

As for the lippage and a few of the raised tiles, I have counted 3 raised tiles and only really 2 tiles that have a really noticeable raised lip (the main one which will be under the peninsula of the kitchen).

Most of the whole floor is at an angle of around 2-3mm (one area is 5mm).
I guess, again, most would not notice this unless you are looking for these issues.

With this in mind do you still think the best option would be to still lift up all tiles and start again or do you think we can get away with the issues and accept their compensation or raise the compensation to future protect if we need to do any big remedial works??

 

[Ajax123]

what constitutes a good pay out ... sounds like you are just grasping to get as much as you can regardless of whether it is deserved or warranted... good vs fair and reasonable...

 

[John Benton]

Read the last paragraph of my previous comment or live with it. You probably don't have enough time to lift the whole lot unless you can put back your kitchen fitting and ask the wife to hang on a bit longer. £800 wouldn't begin to cover the cost of doing the whole lot again, so therefore it's up to you to consider what you would be happy to live with.

 

[Chris101]

Good Evening,

Some of you previously assisted me in September last year with some advice with regards to a dispute with a builder/tiler.

In short, we had appointed a building company (FMB/Trust Mark registered) to put in a new floor for our kitchen from ground up (due to problems with it from another builder in the past), put in new pipe work including wet under floor heating, re-do all plumbing/electrics for our large kitchen/diner, redecorate, put in some new rads, install Sash windows and few other bits and bobs.

The work was carried out without due care and subsequently we have issues with our floor (tiles chipped, uneven floor, grout lines inconsistent in size, a few raised tiles), 3cm step into the kitchen (they had full control of the floor as it was new from ground up and not ideal as we have an immediate family member who uses a wheel chair), Sash windows were only partially ordered due to a mix up of comms between their surveyor and firm owner and they missed out some other jobs that were noted in the contract.

The builder offered some refunds but were unrealistic when compared to the cost of carrying out the repair and outstanding work.

We tried going through insurance but they only covered us up to 15k of the whole contract value, so that fell flat.

Some of you suggested at the time for me to not install our new german kitchen, which was arriving in October and delay it until we sorted out all the issues.
As my wife had a baby in October and we have two other young children, we chose not to delay the kitchen (it had been 3 months without one).
We felt even though there would be far more disruption we could carefully remove our kitchen in the future and redo the floor or possibly, raise the floor of our hall way that leads to the kitchen to the same level (We have two levels of our hall way as it is but this option would also impact a bathroom floor that is connected off the same hall way).

Due to the contract stipulating we had to go down the FMB route through any dispute at first stage, we did this but found the FMB a complete waste of time!
They did not discuss any of the points of contention throughout the process, simply forwarded our emails and the builders emails from one another and at the end said they could not do anything further.
Literally at no time did they discuss anything specific about our issues nor specifics about refunds, it was such a poor service and we do not know why they call it 'mediation'!

The whole process from FMB took around 2.5 months and in the end we are left in a worse off position.
The builder in the new proposal via FMB has had the cheek to retract some refunds he initially offered, advise some areas of the issues no longer existed (evidence of email in the first proposal offered refunds for the same issues that no longer apparently exist) and even add some extra jobs he thought he had carried out as an extra even though they were clearly noted in the contract!
As we had some building companies come out to quote us for the repair/outstanding work, we knew a rough figure that was realistic, which we advised the builder through FMB again but again FMB never discussed this or the builders response.

The dispute is now closed from FMB as they feel the company was fair/reasonable as they had offered refunds and had met me. Literally no other reasons provided!
I challenged this and asked how can they call it fair and reasonable when no independent handyman would carry out the tasks at the refunds value, let alone a building company, which they responded as they could not discuss specifics of figures and they are impartial!
Clearly they had their customers best interest at heart and had no intention from the outset to really try and 'mediate'.

Are any of you aware if TrustMark is any better or should I go straight to Small Claims now?

Thank you

 

[One Day]

i would imagine that as you have already attempted 'mediation', you are in a good position to take it to court.
it sounds like a nightmare!
i have long held the belief that many, if not all 'associations' and 'federations' are nothing more than tax-effective networking groups for those in charge.

 

[Andy Allen]

Sounds like a nightmare customer..!!