How is the tiling industry serving us fixers.? - TilersForums.com

[DHTiling]

Simple really, as the title say's..?

How are we being served in the industry and what can be improved to make it better.?

 

[Gall.B]

Personally I think time served & all other trades for that matter have been very badly let down even before the economic downturn especialy the guys on site doing the comercial stuff.

We have had no protection or had a second thought tossed aside in favour of cheaper migrant & unskilled labour, even companys operating outside the U.K. bringing fixers here to work at a 20 year ago prices.

Feel badly let down by many governing bodies and people in higher power seen it all coming since 2004, dont have a problem with migrants and the 2 week coursers per say . its how we have been percived to the general public as lazy incompetent and working in a semi-skilled trade where as the migrants are the greatest thing since sliced bread, MYTH! There never was a shortage of tradesmen in my opinion also a myth.

 

[user123]

Very interesting, Brian. I followed my son's education and teacher's influence during his schooling, and learning a trade was definitely perceived as, to put it bluntly, dumb person's choice. I had the same education and upbringing and remember my own despait when art or any manual trade for that matter was respected as a hobby but no more. Even my Dad who made great furniture had suffered under that perception, so this was the third generation of people being told that a trade was really no good, that it would lead to poverty and mistreatment by white collar workers. It is that conditioning, IMO, that still lingers, and tradespeople are bearing the brunt of the depression and aggression because they are perceived as someone that can be kicked, and their work being worth less than academic work.

My son, always handy with tools, studied sound and media technology and despite a 1.1 degree result found himself unemployed and faced with the reality that 'real' industries in real life want real experience, not some greenhorn fresh out of uni. What does he do now? He emigrated to Australia and is doing an apprenticeship in carpentry. To my mind a course of events that may well have had a different outcome if he had encouragement outside of the home, too, that manual dexterity and skill is worth admiration and respect, no more or less than any other ability.

And that lack of confidence in the worthiness of a trade rubs off on so many tradesmen, the kind of attitude, if 'they' think I'm a moron I might just as well behave/work/think like one. I listened to Mr Dyson speak once, where he lamented that invention and engineering has gone out of the country, and it's the same reason, and it's such a shame. What happened??, to make making and fixing things so unfashionable? It takes strong characters, strong conviction and the personal pride in quality work to make a difference in this tide of negativity, and the message has to change from school age onward, the message should be of pride and recognition of the trades. Those who determine the fashions and attitudes are those that have been conditioned all wrong. Conditioning can be overcome by personal contact and rapport and mutual respect, so that is the only way on an individual level the industry can change for the better and realise without its tradesmen and women there won't be an industry.

 

[Gall.B]

The whole place is becoming one big call centre! I found my tradesmen to be great teachers not only in matters of tiling but teaching you respect discipline and the virtues of hard graft, something you dont get at uni, My wife seen us in a diffrent light a few years ago when she was studying at Glasgow uni when her favourite lecturer was lamenting about us Tilers & how he has much admiration for us.

Im a 4th generation fixer and love my trade, just so sad to see it become what it has the building trade as a whole.

My brother is a Carpenter and starts whistling the moment his tool belt is on again a proud tradesman, how is your son finding the career change?

 

[user123]

The whole place is becoming one big call centre! I found my tradesmen to be great teachers not only in matters of tiling but teaching you respect discipline and the virtues of hard graft, something you dont get at uni, My wife seen us in a diffrent light a few years ago when she was studying at Glasgow uni when her favourite lecturer was lamenting about us Tilers & how he has much admiration for us.

Im a 4th generation fixer and love my trade, just so sad to see it become what it has the building trade as a whole.

My brother is a Carpenter and starts whistling the moment his tool belt is on again a proud tradesman, how is your son finding the career change?

He's loving every minute of it. Good for him. It took me a lot longer to finally do what really really lights my candle, rather than just what I could do. I like the account of your experience, that is how it should be

 

[teo]

Hello all.
I found this thread quite interesting.
I moved in the UK 3 years ago (to join my partner), when the so called recession was just starting.
I have been in the building industry all my life from when i was 16.
First thing i noticed is that in the UK, on average, tradesman are considered the "leftovers" of the schooling system.
Big difference since i come from a country where trades are well respected, diy is nearly non existent because having a skilled trade working in your home is a sign of "status" of some sort...then i came here and most people where shocked that i knew how to speak 3 languages, that i did 3 years of further education (as well as working) and that i am computer literate enough to teach kids fresh out of uni how to program with a pc.....
Just cause i do a "manual" job (that i love, choose it cause of its variety, money isn't everything in this world) i am usually considered a "stupid and illiterate" troll.
That doesn't happen always, cause i found plenty of lovely people as well, but the trend is quite...depressing!
I think all this "pushing" of education for the sake of it ( most out of uni can't bloomin do anything without consulting the internet first!) its not doing this country any favour; seems like just a big business for the universities and colleges.
Funny cause most tradesmen i have worked with here are very kind and quite resourceful people, while most "tycoons" are just ....troglodytes!
I don't want to make a "class" war now, that's just my experience.
Anyway, i think trades on average are very let down.
Thanks for reading.

 

[user123]

Well said - where do you come from, Teo?

 

[teo]

Northern Italy, lake Como ( quite near George Clooney lol).
Although things are starting to slightly change here as well...

 

[user123]

Northern Italy, lake Como ( quite near George Clooney lol).
Although things are starting to slightly change here as well...

Beautiful place I know it well. Lo sono tedesca :welcome: Mosaic artists also are used to getting more respect in Italy I don't know how it is now though.

 

[teo]

They are still quite sought after apparently, the architect i do some work for find it difficult to find people to do them!

 

[Polishtradesman]

Ok. So some of you think that downturn on the market is migrant foult. I do not think so. East European are doing lot of good work here, much more positives then problems. Europe is our place as well as French, Germans, Italians. Roosvelt and Churchill gave us under Stalin occupation, actually under 45 years occupation and that has ruined our countries. When it was econamical grow everyone was happy that migrants doing lot of work, that British can make more money. There is lot of British doing profit in Poland (eg BP, Tesco). So what wrong that migrants are here??!! Maybe it is socialists idiots foult. Socialists have ruled this country for last years, they gives lot of benefits to people who really dont deserve it. Law is so stupid that people choose to do nothing instead of working. There is so much demoralization in country which gives so many opportiunites, that is strage, that is socialists foult, they made people lazy, now when it is very important to do cuts, here is so many strikes, citizens get used to consumption. You need another Margaret.

 

[andy8758]

I always get into trouble expressing opinions.....

IMHO the UK (or GB to use the out of fashion phrase) is a relic of its Commonwealth. We still believe we are better than other nationalities and are definitely elitist and probably racist. That is a generalisation, and I apologise (before you all gang up on me) to those who have more open minded opinions, but before you place yourselves in that category, ask yourself these questions:
Do you judge peoples intelligence and ability by their qualifications or by the person they are and what they can achieve?
Does it actually matter at all who lives in this country?
Do you judge people by their origin or by their standards?
Is it more important to have a job well done or a job done by a person born and raised in the UK?

I have 6 O levels, 2 A levels, and a number of professional managerial qualifications. My wife has no qualifications, left school at 15 and has done manual work all her life. She is actually more intelligent than me, and has a much greater knowledge of many things - but I can write it better than her.

I have been involved in professional tiling for just 2 years. I am perfectly happy to tile, perfectly happy to compete with any other tiler for work, and accept that I am probably never going to achieve the skills that I have seen displayed by some other tilers. I watched a tiler from Poland at work recently - I still have an awful lot to aspire to achieve. That will not stop me from tiling, and making a living from it. We are still in a recession. Times are hard. You have to be prepared to work harder for less earnings - there is nothing to achieve by bemoaning the influx of tradesmen/women from other countries - who incidentally are also in recession.

My sole whinge is about people (from anywhere) who undercut my tiling business by taking on tiling work they are incapable of doing. I am currently writing up a quotation for a customer who has a partially tiled bathroom - 3 tradesmen said "oh, I can tile" then bodged it. Polished porcelain that is not level, excessively lipped, the cuts look like they were hammered, the grout lines are all different sizes, the corner tile grout lines are crooked and 1 tradesmen spent a whole day partially completing a window reveal. So thats 1 (English) plumber, 1 (English) carpenter and 1 (English) tiler who have bodged and failed to complete a relatively small tiling job. This has nothing to do with where a person is from and everything to do with greed and over confidence. But I guess that is one of the effects of our recession.

 

[user123]

I always get into trouble expressing opinions.....

IMHO the UK (or GB to use the out of fashion phrase) is a relic of its Commonwealth. We still believe we are better than other nationalities and are definitely elitist and probably racist. That is a generalisation, and I apologise (before you all gang up on me) to those who have more open minded opinions, but before you place yourselves in that category, ask yourself these questions:
Do you judge peoples intelligence and ability by their qualifications or by the person they are and what they can achieve?
Does it actually matter at all who lives in this country?
Do you judge people by their origin or by their standards?
Is it more important to have a job well done or a job done by a person born and raised in the UK?

I have 6 O levels, 2 A levels, and a number of professional managerial qualifications. My wife has no qualifications, left school at 15 and has done manual work all her life. She is actually more intelligent than me, and has a much greater knowledge of many things - but I can write it better than her.

I have been involved in professional tiling for just 2 years. I am perfectly happy to tile, perfectly happy to compete with any other tiler for work, and accept that I am probably never going to achieve the skills that I have seen displayed by some other tilers. I watched a tiler from Poland at work recently - I still have an awful lot to aspire to achieve. That will not stop me from tiling, and making a living from it. We are still in a recession. Times are hard. You have to be prepared to work harder for less earnings - there is nothing to achieve by bemoaning the influx of tradesmen/women from other countries - who incidentally are also in recession.

My sole whinge is about people (from anywhere) who undercut my tiling business by taking on tiling work they are incapable of doing. I am currently writing up a quotation for a customer who has a partially tiled bathroom - 3 tradesmen said "oh, I can tile" then bodged it. Polished porcelain that is not level, excessively lipped, the cuts look like they were hammered, the grout lines are all different sizes, the corner tile grout lines are crooked and 1 tradesmen spent a whole day partially completing a window reveal. So thats 1 (English) plumber, 1 (English) carpenter and 1 (English) tiler who have bodged and failed to complete a relatively small tiling job. This has nothing to do with where a person is from and everything to do with greed and over confidence. But I guess that is one of the effects of our recession.

Where's the 'love' button for this?

 

[teo]

True that.
But i think its down to the huge amount of people competing for the same job.
I haven't been here long enough to know if its always been like that, but i can't believe at the huge amount of tradesmen/women there's around.
Also i think most workers that have been made redundant from the big boys are starting self employed and trying to get jobs that way; can't blame them but that can lead to undercutting of prices, which IMHO is never a good thing.
I don't think tradesmen/women here hate foreigners ( i am one, and on average found people very polite with me) but i am sure they don't like the fact that foreigners usually work for less, thus leading to the "undercutting" and falling down of wages.
I was laughing when i was looking at the jobcentre website and seen this advert "Looking for an experienced builder that can do carpentry, plumbing, electrics and plastering, qualifications required. wage of 8 pounds an hour" nearly fell off my chair.....why anybody in this world with all those skills and qualifications (if someone like that will ever exist) would want to live with a silly wage like that?
Times are hard, and since we basically don't have anybody that protect us, the only way to do it is to not undercut, always price a job accordingly, making a living out of it and not making a "striving" out of it (if that make sense).
At the end of the day, if you are skilled you should get a "skilled wage".
I never underprice (not a tiler by the way, i do it just for people i know cause i want to learn it, and i think the best way is learning "on site") and obviously loose plenty of jobs, but its the customer loss if they dont get me; instead of putting the price down i offer more, but for the same price...this way no one is competing on prices but on quality!
As usual everything should be done with a huge chunk of common sense.
hope all of the above make sense.

 

[doug boardley]

Personally I think there's too many British Standards and not enough Building Regs in our industry, I think it's time that we were brought into line with other trades and have very little ambiguity about how to do a job correctly.