Dot and Dab tiles!!

N

nat

TF
Hi,

hoping someone can advise me the best course of action? Bathroom refit started this week and when I have gone around to check tiling work it appears that tiles have been fixed with lumps of adhesive onto plasterboard? One tile I have managed to pull right off with very little effort, should I tell bathroom fitter to stop work?

Many Thanks in advance
 
Dot and dab fixing is not an approved method. I feel you are well within your rights to ask the tiler to fix in accordance with the adhesive companies instructions and British standards.
 
Thanks for your quick response! I really feel that I no longer want them to carry out the rest of the work to be honest I no longer have any faith in them.

Currently left with just a bath and half a toilet, the are due back Monday, feel like just telling them to get lost but they have the rest of my bathroom, vanity unit shower enclosure toilet etc...
 
Tile size is 25cmx40 cm, adhesive I think is Nicobond ultragrip, in yellow tub with black lid? Thanks for your help with this, I haven't slept a wink last night worrying about it!!
 
Bonding of the Tiles
Fix dry tiles immediately by pressing them firmly into position with a slight
sliding or twisting action. Where appropriate, the adhesive can be spread
both onto the surface as described above, and buttered on the backs of
the tiles. Whichever method is used, the tiles should be firmly pressed
home to ensure solid bedding without voids, particularly in wet areas.
From time to time remove a tile to check that full contact has been made
with the adhesive bed. Where fixing is carried out in hot conditions, the
finished tiling should be protected from direct sunlight to avoid premature
drying. Should Nicobond UltraGrip dry out, due to excessive delays in
fixing, the adhesive must be removed and fresh material applied.
Adjustments to tiling can usually be made up to 15 minutes after fixing.
N&C (Nicholls and Clarke) Building materials manufacturer and supplierultragrip.pdf

View attachment ultragrip.pdf
 
you need to explain your concerns to them, and give them the chance to put it right at there own cost, DONT let them fob you off, if they refuse to amend there mistake just remember the cards are very much stacked in your favour..
 
I know what the fixer will say..."i have always done it that way with no problem"... then you should tell him that he has always done it wrong.
While the instructions do claim it is for large format tiles and you can back butter the tiles it also states Solid bed with no voids. If he has dot and dabbed it will be neither of those.
 
Thanks Andy for your reply, what if I don't want to continue with the work, where would I stand? I have very little confidence in the now.
 
I think you should state your concerns that :

1 : The adhesive used is really border line for that tile size.

2 : The fixing method does not conform to BS5385.

3 : Cost of rectification of said tiling works.

We have a market place that is flooded with i can do that mentality trades or i have done it for years and never had a problem type..

Stand your ground and insist on it being done to code.
 
BSI 5385 7.2.1.5.3
Notched trowelling and buttering method
The notched trowelling and buttering method combines
7.2.1.5.1
and
7.2.1.5.2
and should be used for fixing large tiles (
3.4
) and tiles with
ribbed, deep keyed or heavy buttoned back profiles. A thin coating
of adhesive buttered over the backs should fill the deep keys before
placing the tiles in position on the combed adhesive bed. There
should be no significant increase in the bed thickness.
NOTE This bedding method aims to achieve a solid bed but, in practice,
a number of small voids are inevitable
 
Dean by the looks of it there are large voids from what I can see, even if they do put it right I don't trust them to do the rest of the work...
 
Also when fixing tiles with a Dispersion ( tubbed ) adhesive , it is good practice to have an absorbent substrate or tile body , to aid in the dispersion of the moisture within the adhesive and to achieve a capillary bond.
 
Don't want to scare you but I fit bathrooms a lot , and if they are that bad at tiling I would say check ALL plumbing joints etc just to be safe.
 
Morning Nat and welcome.

This sort of work is happening more and more each and everyday.

I can't really add anymore than the guys already have. The only thing i will add is although (although its too early for maths so i haven't worked it out) i believe your tile size is just within limitation. Most tubbed adhesive will have a maximum bed depth limit of 6mm. This will obviously be exceeded if dot and dabbing has been done. Hence why you can pull them off with ease.

Personally. And i have sort of had this discussion with someone recently on this forum. The limitations, directions, tolerances and advice are all printed on the product. There is no excuse unless the guy can't read.
I don't know if giving him/them an opportunity to "do it right" is an option. Should of been done right the first time.
 
Morning Allister ... 3mm depth springs to mind here... as you say though, packing out with tubbed is a no no.
 
Yes now yet mention it you maybe right. Sorry mate not long got up. Little fragile this morning.

I seem to recall BAL's tubbed stuff says 3 actually. Had this argument about a moth ago with a "busy" tiler in my area. He's been fixing travertine with green star and wait for it, never had a problem.

Thing is if these people used the correct products they'd make more money. How many tubs must they be going through per bathroom install. Nuts!
 
AliGage said:
Yes now yet mention it you maybe right. Sorry mate not long got up. Little fragile this morning.

I seem to recall BAL's tubbed stuff says 3 actually. Had this argument about a moth ago with a "busy" tiler in my area. He's been fixing travertine with green star and wait for it, never had a problem.

Thing is if these people used the correct products they'd make more money. How many tubs must they be going through per bathroom install. Nuts!
Click to expand...

Travertine ..jeez...

I love that phrase.. "done it for years and never had a problem.." , had no problems coz they have never been called back.


Nat , we shall await your reply to see what they say on Monday but for now do not worry and try to relax .. all can be fixed and not a permanent bodge.
 
I think that these 'professional' fixers probably believe that this is a quick method of fixing, and also the fact that by using dot n dab, you can eliminate deviations in the wall/floor in one go, without any other form of prep.

Either way it's wrong and they should be taken to task about it. You don't even need to go for the jugular on this one. Raise the points made by these guys, wait for his answers, and then show him the fixing instructions on the tub. What can't speak can't lie.

Good luck!!
 
How about 600 x 300 porcelain on the floor and walls with greenstar. Failed.... Another one which is still ongoing in my area was 600 x 600 porcelain dot and dabbed on ufh. It failed and is now a messy court case.
 
Can you really do anything to a cowboy though. By definition they don't give a toss. All trades need to be challenged by the customer, references, public liability, affiliation with governing bodies etc.
 
Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my post, not all tilers are bad then?!! At the moment they have only plumbed in bath and tiles, but they have the rest of my bathroom furniture. I don't want them completing the rest of the job, but not sure how I can go about sorting this out as I have already paid for the tiles which are now ruined.....any suggestions? Thanks
 
nat said:
This so called bathroom fitter is a member of Guild of Mastercraftsmen?
Click to expand...

All you have to do is pay the 300+ quid and you are in...

Now the TTA is a different kettle of fish.. they fully vet you and needs a referral to join as well ..


The Guild IMO has no meaning now to what it was a lot of years ago.
 

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