Advice needed - poor tiling job, dot and dab not to BS5385 - TilersForums.com

[Tile Shop]

Ahhhhh...... found it. Or at least part of it. In the June update of BS5385 Part 1.... but now they should amend part 4 to suite!

6.1.1.3 Tanking
In Wet areas, e.g. showers, wet rooms and steam rooms, substrates should be protected with a suitable proprietary tanking membrane system.

The weight capacity of the tanking system should be capable of carrying the load of the tiles and adhesive. If mechanical fixings are to be used the membrane manufacturer should be consulted.

Where the substrate is to be protected with a tanking membrane the weight restrictions of the installation might be reduced therefore the membrane manufacturer should be consulted.

NOTE This can be a proprietary sheet membrane or a liquid applied water impermeable product.

 

[Tile Shop]

One other amendment made is in 7.2.1.6 Tile Joints (quite why it was put in here I don't know.... think they messed up and it should have gone in 7.2.1.5.......... damn I'm such a geek!)

"Tiles should never be fixed with butt-joints, as an adequate width of joint is necessary for the relief of local stress.

Tiles should not be fixed using the dot and dab technique."

BOOM!

 

[One Day]

Every week that goes by, I get to see more and more failed jobs.
It is well past time that this industry got some kind of proper regulation.
Tiling isn't fitting 6x6 bumpy whites any more.

 

[Soso]

Ahhhhh...... found it. Or at least part of it. In the June update of BS5385 Part 1.... but now they should amend part 4 to suite!

6.1.1.3 Tanking
In Wet areas, e.g. showers, wet rooms and steam rooms, substrates should be protected with a suitable proprietary tanking membrane system.

The weight capacity of the tanking system should be capable of carrying the load of the tiles and adhesive. If mechanical fixings are to be used the membrane manufacturer should be consulted.

Where the substrate is to be protected with a tanking membrane the weight restrictions of the installation might be reduced therefore the membrane manufacturer should be consulted.

NOTE This can be a proprietary sheet membrane or a liquid applied water impermeable product.

oh my gosh, that is perfect ! Thank you so so much. He fitted our bathroom in May 2018 but I'm sure the new standard should still apply given its what the tile association said too before ?

 

[Soso]

One other amendment made is in 7.2.1.6 Tile Joints (quite why it was put in here I don't know.... think they messed up and it should have gone in 7.2.1.5.......... damn I'm such a geek!)

"Tiles should never be fixed with butt-joints, as an adequate width of joint is necessary for the relief of local stress.

Tiles should not be fixed using the dot and dab technique."

BOOM!

I guess this hits on two counts. Some of the mosaics are right next to each other without any room for grout as he hasn't spaced some properly and also dot and dab expressly mentioned is fantastic !

 

[Soso]

BS5385 part 4:2015:

7.2.3 Installations not immersed but subject to occasional wetting.
In installations where contact with water is only intermittent, and the installation has had the opportunity to dry out between periods of use, e.g. domestic (not power) showers, 7.2.1 and the following should apply: (have checked 7.2.1 and all it says relating to your query may be not to use plaster or gypsum based materials in wet areas as they are unstable when wet or when combined with cement based materials).

a) The background should preferably be cement and sand rendering or dense concrete. Sheets and boards should not be used unless they are dimensionally stable in changing moisture conditions. Tiles should be solidly bedded in water resistant adhesive.

b) The joints between the tiles should be water-resistant but additional protection can be obtained by using an impervious grout.

c) The gaps between wall and shower tray/bath should be sealed, particularly where the installation is located on a suspended floor.

NOTE 1, for water sensitive backgrounds e.g. gypsum plaster, additional protection in the form of a waterproofing tanking system may be considered.

NOTE 2, The use of impervious grouts and adhesives is no substitute for a tanked installation.

More to follow when I get a bit more time.... 7.2.4 which is for wetrooms and domestic power showers. or you can have a browse yourself:
British Standards no longer available at Newcastle Library.... But here's another way. - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/british-standards-no-longer-available-at-newcastle-library-but-heres-another-way.83947/

In reference to point a above, he used a standard plaster board on one side of the shower and on the rest he installed ceramic tiles and mosaics over the top of very old previous tiling job. And by the window, we don't believe he prepared the walls again so not sure what he did there. Yes i think i could definitely say plaster board is not suitable in that area ?

 

[Tile Shop]

oh my gosh, that is perfect ! Thank you so so much. He fitted our bathroom in May 2018 but I'm sure the new standard should still apply given its what the tile association said too before ?

Hard to say. You will probably need to speak to the TTA on that one. not sure how much clout it would give if it wasn't in writing before they were installed. But it is good practice and many pro tilers will not tile a shower without it.

 

[Tile Shop]

I guess this hits on two counts. Some of the mosaics are right next to each other without any room for grout as he hasn't spaced some properly and also dot and dab expressly mentioned is fantastic !

Yes I guess it will but the amount of stress within a couple of line of mosaic would not have an impact. Its just a lack of attention to detail on the tilers part. The dot and dab is a good change. Before they only recommended methods to use with no mention of what methods not to use.

 

[Tile Shop]

In reference to point a above, he used a standard plaster board on one side of the shower and on the rest he installed ceramic tiles and mosaics over the top of very old previous tiling job. And by the window, we don't believe he prepared the walls again so not sure what he did there. Yes i think i could definitely say plaster board is not suitable in that area ?

Without tanking, no it isn't. As for tiling on tile.... do you know what surface the old tiles were installed onto and how thick they were?

 

[Soso]

Without tanking, no it isn't. As for tiling on tile.... do you know what surface the old tiles were installed onto and how thick they were?

I've just remembered we have the same old tiles in another bathroom. They look like they are around 5mm or 4mm depth. The surface underneath the old tiles was just a normal wall i believe though . On the back side of the shower area away from the new shower head, they ripped out the other shower unit which left a hole in the wall. We believe, from what we saw, that they put small offcuts of plasterboard into some parts of that hole ( not all ) and they seemed to just dump mortar/adhesive in the hole so we have no idea how they did this properly. I think the holes are probably still there behind the mortar - we saw some internal insulation in the hole too. This is a part of the shower that would be mostly away from significant water fall although it would still get some.