quartz tiles over floating floor

[GaryS]

Hi guys ive done tiles only a few times and landed a job because im a perfectionist and will make sure the tiles are flush however i got a lot to learn and been thrown into the deep end with 55m2 of quartz tiles to do on a floor. the floor is a floating foor that has had 9mm ply over 18mm mdf. I can set out and tile the area just looking for pointers more on what not to do. so any help will be appreciated tiles are 600 * 600 quartz black sparkly affairs and a bit pricey to get it wrong. adhesive recomendations and primers ect will also be helpful

 

[Ian]

Ok, to begin with the 9mm ply is not a good idea nor is it in line with British standards (15mm minimum). If your floor is free from deflection then use a cement board. My biggest question is how stable is your floating floor? 99% of floating floors are not suitable for tiling on as they are too unstable.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Gary - I think you should look at a few threads on 'floating floors' and get some information from the adhesive manufacturers before you commit to this job.

 

[kilty55]

as above,the floating floor isnt a great idea and neither is 9mmply

have a look into substrates gary

 

[Aston]

as above, not great floors to tile on.

 

[Rich]

As above, you have picked a bad on to get thrown in on. Even the best tilers on here would go into that very carefuly. Is it a new floating floor?

 

[kilty55]

i know the lure of a job that size is tempting gary but look into it in depth

 

[GaryS]

ty for the fast responses folks if it needs heavier ply or a cement board on top this is what i need to know if i need to tell customer this is what needs to be done first then i will do and i think he will ok it, if not i will leave well alone as i dont fancy the big repair bill if it goes wrong. it seems there is also an issue with the correct type of adhesive to use because of the floating floor and the quartz tiles have seperate requirements

 

[DHTiling]

Hello Gary and welcome to Tilers forums.co.uk.

If it is indeed a floating floor then unless you sort out the deflection issues then you have a heart ache that Romeo would be proud of.,

 

[Ian]

So many things to consider, sound substrate, cement board, de-coupling membrane, flex adhesive, flex grout, expansion joints. It really is a mine field and the floating floor is not a good starting point. Please be careful.

 

[Rich]

To be honest mate, I think I would leave well alone. As has been said above, there is so much to take into account and if one step of the way is not done properly, you have a hell of a problem on your hands.

Is there any chance of changing the flooring?

 

[DHTiling]

just to throw another spanner on the works... do you know if they are conglomerate tiles..?

 

[GaryS]

client has already thrown tilers of the job for not having the tiles flush hmm maybe thats the easy way out lol lay some that are a few mm out and give problem to someone else lol, if i have to tell client that 9mm ply is no good as his £5k floor will fail later im sure he will listen I just need to know exactly what to do to make it right this client doesnt want to spend the money but he has it to spend and will if i can tell him why

 

[GaryS]

conglomerate tile dave ?
client sourced tiles so how can you tell ?

 

[Ian]

His 5k floor will be worth 5 quid if it fails and needs ripping up. First things first, is the sub floor stable and deflection free?

 

[Rich]

Do a search of the forum with the search bar on tiling onto floating floors.

This really isnt just a case of getting the tiles flush, the prep is everything. I really would walk away, let some1 else have this one mate.

 

[aph257]

to be blunt, i'd walk away.

 

[GaryS]

It is not a case of walking away on this one as this client will pay to get it right if i can tell him why it needs to be done a particular way i just need to be able to tell him why. im not that confident that the floor is deflection free as there is still a few squeaks in the floor when walking on it , but i will be happy to go to client and say sry i wont do this job unless this is done first. seems this is a job that has very specific requirements and id like to get right as this is a customer that has a lot of properties and i mean a lot so its regular income its a glasgow based job so i may consider subbing the work out

 

[TheTiler]

With respect, this is a very expensive DIY project waiting to go very wrong Sir. My advice is to use alternative flooring, and I don't say that often. I wouldn't quote the job as a tiler.

 

[TheTiler]

Good luck

 

[The D]

call Mapei and give them the run down and they will give you the spec you can then go from there.

 

[Andy Allen]

this is how you need to tell him to prep the floor.........rip up the floating floor and put a sand a cement screed down, wait for it to dry and tile.

or rip up floating floor add joists and noggings, 22mm ply, cement board ,tile.

adding layers on top of the floating floor just aint worth the risk

 

[Rich]

As above, I did one a little while ago. The customers wanted me to tile over a floating floor, I said no, thinking that they would just have to put up with carpet but they asked me to price for ripping out, getting a screed in there and then tile. They were well impressed that I didnt just say "yeah Il tile onto that. It will be alright".

 

[doug boardley]

Tiling onto this floor is doomed to failure, far too many negatives associated with it.

 

[GaryS]

floor now has 12mm ply over the top of the original 9m ply and feels pretty solid walk away advice may be the easy way but this one has to be done i have spoken to ball rep who recconmends fastflex as as screed then rapidset with ad1 additive as addy seems they wont reconmend 1 addy *** its quartz over the floating floor the addy for quartz doesnt work with floating floor ect lol so if any of you guys have exp on what addy to use without bieng silly and spending £700 on an addy as a screed it would help

 

[GaryS]

just for the record guys i am a flooring installer however it is normaly laminate hardwood or karndean floors i do, tiling iv'e ony done a few times so it takes me a while to get it right but i get there measuring and cutting i do all day every day just diff tools, setting the job out and getting it flush i can already do just some of the technical stuff i need a little help on. this floor isnt one i can walk from it would cost future work and probably a lot of future work so i need to get it right. as most you guys will have experienced some tilers will turn up and say it can be done regardless of problems, my customer is a fairly clued up guy but he like most customers wont part with cash unless i can explain why the floor will fail if he doesnt follow the correct procedure, i've learned a lot just looking through the posts here. there was existing tiles in the kitchen area in this job for years that were fine on just 9mm ply so getting customer to pay for the extra ply was just in the way of peace of mind for him. fortunately he knows im not a tiler so there really wouldnt be a comeback however i won't do the job if i know it will fail as i wont do that to anyone.

 

[Andy Allen]

i can tell you now if the floor was to fail, then BAL would wipe there hands of it by simply saying the floor has to much deflection.

 

[The D]

just for the record guys i am a flooring installer however it is normaly laminate hardwood or karndean floors i do, tiling iv'e ony done a few times so it takes me a while to get it right but i get there measuring and cutting i do all day every day just diff tools, setting the job out and getting it flush i can already do just some of the technical stuff i need a little help on. this floor isnt one i can walk from it would cost future work and probably a lot of future work so i need to get it right. as most you guys will have experienced some tilers will turn up and say it can be done regardless of problems, my customer is a fairly clued up guy but he like most customers wont part with cash unless i can explain why the floor will fail if he doesnt follow the correct procedure, i've learned a lot just looking through the posts here. there was existing tiles in the kitchen area in this job for years that were fine on just 9mm ply so getting customer to pay for the extra ply was just in the way of peace of mind for him. fortunately he knows im not a tiler so there really wouldnt be a comeback however i won't do the job if i know it will fail as i wont do that to anyone.

then don't do the job! you have been given good advice but you are still searching for the miracle fix but it dose not exist, in short the sub-straight is unsuitable for tiling.

 

[GaryS]

lol most manufaturers will do the same they will always find something that means its not there fault, it seems that there may be a potential problem with the adhesive that should be used for a floating floor causing the quartz tiles to curl and the addy for quartz tiles isnt reconmended for a floating floor so its going to be a problem one way or another. I need to be able to give customer a best compromise solution as he will not rip up floor to cement screed it or put in proper joists he will just keep reminding me that the kitchen had been tiled for years on only 9mm ply and that quartz tiles are really strong tiles. it seems a call to mapie technical line is needed to find out which addy will work with these tiles and a floating floor and then a small test area done to make sure it doesnt all go pear shaped.

 

[Andy Allen]

then leave the test area for 6 months to a year thats how long it could take to fail believe you me ive seen it.

the adhesive is the least of your problems most addy comps will say there product will stick to a floating floor the issue is how can you be 100% sure the floating floor will remain deflection free

 

[GaryS]

I cant guarantee the floor will be deflection free I can only do what can be done to strengthen it as ripping up floor and replacing with joists and dwangs is not an option, nor is a cement based screed, apart from anything else there are access issues on this one as its a penthouse apartment so joists ect would prob have to be craned in making the cost of doing so really prohibitive there are also heating pipes under the floating floor running all over the place that makes cement based screed unusable without burying the existing pipes in concrete, it has been hard enough just getting ply onto this job as even that barely goes up the stairs and doesnt fit in lift.

The adhesive apparently can warp these tiles if the incorrect one is used so it remains an issue with the tiles.

These tiles are really beautiful tiles but omg what a headache to get them fitted.