Polypipe Overlay System

[jonnyc]

Yet another job to quote for over this system.
Polypipe must have sold thousands of these systems but talk to their technical department and the tech guys just do not a have a clue ?
After a lot of research I find that Schluter suggest that you need to apply a minimum 5mm latex cover over top of boards and pipes and then ditra will help tiles not cracking but absolutely not guaranteed .
This is the best advice I've found .
Polypipe just say you can stick tiles directly on to boards with a flex ahesive . Their tech department admitted that they have never asked an adhesive company to test their product.
What a joke !!
I am going to write to polypipe and invite them on to this forum to explain why their system is fine to fix tikes on to!,,,,,,

 

[jonnyc]

Sorry to forgot to qualify that I have found a guaranteed method over polypipe overlay boards .
Need to use min 6mm hardie backer or similar but it has to be screw fixed in to gypsum boards. This is ok if you have whole subfloor in gypsum boards. But in this instance I have a new screed with water pipes meeting the polypipe overlay . This is not uncommon with extensions. Take out bridging different substrates which isn't guaranteed but hardie board is not guaranteed either over screed unless it is mechanically fixed which means drilling maybe in to water pipes!!!!

 

[Old Mod]

Sorry to forgot to qualify that I have found a guaranteed method over polypipe overlay boards .
Need to use min 6mm hardie backer or similar but it has to be screw fixed in to gypsum boards. This is ok if you have whole subfloor in gypsum boards. But in this instance I have a new screed with water pipes meeting the polypipe overlay . This is not uncommon with extensions. Take out bridging different substrates which isn't guaranteed but hardie board is not guaranteed either over screed unless it is mechanically fixed which means drilling maybe in to water pipes!!!!

Yeah that's the method I used for Petes friend Jonny. 6mm Hardie over the Polypipe.

 

[jonnyc]

Did I recommend you do that?
Seems the best way and can't do any harm to fix ditra on top

 

[Dan]

You mentioned this on our plumbing forum?

If not, I'll start a thread and see what they're being told maybe?

 

[Old Mod]

Did I recommend you do that?
Seems the best way and can't do any harm to fix ditra on top

No I did some research with Polypipe and Ditra myself, and between all the phone calls that's what was settled on.
You did give me the tip on the latex tho 😀

 

[Old Mod]

You know @jonnyc after sleeping on it, I'm not even sure where the original idea came from.
I know I spoke at length with Polypipe and Schluter, I found out from Polypipe that their system was a loose lay system and that they wouldn't advocate the use of latex directly over their pipes, it would have to have a covering first. All Schluter wanted was a solid load bearing substrate, and as long as I could fill both criteria then all in the world was good!
So because the Polypipe was so poorly laid I had to mechanically fix through Polypipe boards to the screed, then we fixed directly thro both the Hardie and Polypipe, carefully of course. Hence all the lines drawn on the floor in the image.
This satisfied Polypipe that there was no liquid product encasing their pipes and we could latex, this in turn gave a solid load bearing substrate which appeased Schluter! Happy days!
I also know u and I spoke on the phone about this particular job also, both before and during.
So as to exactly where the idea of using Hardie first came from is a little blurred after all this time. 😕
So maybe it was idea u had, If it was, then oooops sorry 😀
I see Tracy (Petes Friend) every now and then and I've to go back and put some more work right that she suffered from the original contractor, and everything is absolutely fine, I've even extended the floor in to the new play room.
So yeah, it definitely appears to work.

 

[Lee@emctiles]

oh i do love a good polypipe thread.....

kept me entertained on forums for years.....

ive asked them (and others makes) to come and chat various times, even tweeted them get them to answer Qs.

alas, nothing.

 

[Lee@emctiles]

To add, it does my head in when customers come in and explain that they can tile directly onto this type of board.

you cant.

 

[widler]

I did , a couple of years ago , tiled straight to it , was round the other month ,twas fine ,maybe the island is holding it down 🙂

 

[widler]

Just to add, we did check, the owner ,me and the plumber with polypipe 1st, as i was not happy about tiling it and the plumber insisted it was fine, and polypipe confirmed this 😱

 

[Old Mod]

Just to add, we did check, the owner ,me and the plumber with polypipe 1st, as i was not happy about tiling it and the plumber insisted it was fine, and polypipe confirmed this 😱

Yeah they told me the same 😀

 

[Dan]

Not sure if they'll help but perhaps have a quick flick through these threads: site:ukplumbersforums.co.uk polypipe - Google Search

 

[jonnyc]

Polypipe tech Dept today told me that that they are only telephonists. They don't make decisions. Adhesive manufActurers seem to be happy to put latex down on boards and then overlay but Polypipe say latex will cause pipes to jump out of their grooves!! How so?? They win hands down as the the most uninformed useless company I have ever dealt with

 

[Lee@emctiles]

Following on from @jonnyc post, we got an inquiry yesterday for another of these types of UFH systems, this one is called NU-Heat LoPRO10......


Love the fact this company supplies the "25kg bags of LoPro™QuickSet self-levelling compound" in the kit. (its not even a flexible self leveller!) And it has a 8 hour set time

So how do i advise?

I have suggested:

Prime surface with TM Primeplus
Lay Decoupler/Anti fracture Mat (with either TM Ultimate or TM Setaflex)
Fix Tiles with TM Ulitmate or Setaflex
Grout with TM Grout 3000 with flexi master added

 

[dansk]

Hi - im in need of some guidance.

As a person who installs underfloor heating - electric and wet - we get asked a lot to fit these systems often - to date ive done a few but over timber sub-floors so easy to screw down.

My question is - would we be better bonding these to the sub-floor with tile adhesive, this would give a firm bond - this is what we do with marmox boards when fitting an electric system - and secondly - because those boards are gypsum am i right in thinking a cement based adhesive would react and de-bond?

 

[Lee@emctiles]

and secondly - because those boards are gypsum am i right in thinking a cement based adhesive would react and de-bond?

That is a great 2nd question.

 

[dansk]

Im not sure which way to take your reply - but assuming your not adding anything to the debate its more on the sarcastic side?

Any thoughts on actually bonding overlay panels down with adhesive rather than just gluing the joints?

 

[Lee@emctiles]

@dansk sorry wasnt meant to be sarcastic, just the question ive been asked quite a few times and ive not had it clarified.

to me it would make sense to use a gypsum based adhesive.

 

[Lee@emctiles]

Morning chaps, just a quick one, ive lured polypipe into a conversation over on twitter with regards to installing tiles directly ontop.

just screen shot the chat, it started with me questioning if this floor was actually ready for tiling or not.

couldnt leave it there thou

am awaiting a response........

 

[Lee@emctiles]

i still believe the best two ways of installing over this are:

1,
Prime surface with TM Primeplus
Lay Decoupler/Anti fracture Mat (with either TM Ultimate or TM Setaflex)
Fix Tiles with TM Ulitmate or Setaflex
Grout with TM Grout 3000 with flexi master added

or

2,
Level it with Tm Levelflex/rapid level 30
Fix Tiles with TM Ulitmate or Setaflex
Grout with TM Grout 3000 with flexi master added
Heres the later, levelled.

 

[J Sid]

do TM recommend this method ? @Lee@TileTown
assuming the board are stuck down I use Ditra and tile as normal, I don't level under Ditra. I level the base floor first.

 

[DavidP-TUFHS]

An alternative option, which we have had tested by Instarmac (manufacturers of (Brand Blocked Temporarily until they unblock us on facebook) adhesives) is to use our solid floor panel method. We use the same basic principal but with a few tweaks.

Here is a link to the install video which shows how it works -

- if anyone has any questions about this or requires a bit more clarification on any specific issues let me know.

 

[J Sid]

yes David that's my preferred one to use, alot better